Author Topic: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again  (Read 20749 times)

Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #36 on: Friday 23 May 14 15:40 BST (UK) »
Hmm ... I think the George Lea that Nat worked for, after bankruptcy in the coal business, became a lighterman ... not an engraver.

Just found him...George Lea b 1820 St Pancras s/o Charles Lea (Granny Shepard's brother) and Lydia Wood.

My mistake for thinking the engraver was related.  :-[

I either forgot or never realised George was only 6 years older than Nat!
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


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Offline Ruskie

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #37 on: Saturday 24 May 14 12:29 BST (UK) »
Just briefly popping in while watching Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets  ;D. When Harry mistakenly ends up in Knockturn Alley instead of Diagon Alley there are a number of shops along the narrow alley - one of them is a bookshop, which made me think of Percy Passage and Nat's bookshop. So I went searching for photos of the film set, but couldn't find what I was looking for.

I did find this though, which I imagine Percy Passage to have been like.
Seventh picture down:
http://hothousemonkey.com/post/27283227814/diagon-alley-day-21

If Percy Passage was anything like the alley in this image, I think there would have been room for a door, shop window, and sign. We also don't know whether the shops would only have been along one side of the Passage, which may have made it less cramped.

Drykid, it would be great if you could take a photo next time you are in the area.

Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 24 May 14 14:25 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the pics, Ruskie ...  ;)

Avm found this snippet for us:
" .... Percy Chapel, situate in Charlotte-street, near Rathbone-place, containing sittings for a numerous congregation, with vestry room, extensive vaults, range of small shops in Percy-passage, adjoining the chapel, ..."

Googling Percy Chapel there is this painting : http://www.magnoliabox.com/tag/Charlotte%20Street
(2nd picture, Percy Chapel with Percy Passage to the left)

This is another view of Percy Chapel and passage:
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


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Offline Ruskie

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 24 May 14 14:46 BST (UK) »
So Percy Passage doesn't look too small in those images.

I did find it on a couple of old maps - never named as Percy Passage, but it was a very straight 'lane' directly through to the Chapel from Upper Rathbone Place. You can see it quite clearly here (though the Chapel is not named):
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0zem/


Offline Ruskie

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 24 May 14 14:49 BST (UK) »
As promised - sorry for the delay ...

STILL OUTSTANDING

There will be more – please add to this list if you wish.

Most of these have been taken from the previous ‘revisited’ thread, so there is a lot of repetition and most of these have been discussed at length already.

Although many of us have already searched as thoroughly as we can for answers to the mysteries below, might it be worth trying again in case more data has come online over the past couple of years?

Ann Fox:
Birthday 9 Oct 1801 – born where ? Queen St /Green St, Middx according to the 1851 census. Look at image again? Enhance image to try to see it more clearly?
Is there any way to go thru PRs from Queen St? Fox perhaps was her married name? Where is Ann in 1861? She is living with Mrs Kennington in Stephen Street in 1851. If she died before 1861 where is her death/burial? - Can we decipher and locate this and find her birth? Due to the fact that she attended Tottenham Court Road Chapel, it has been suggested that she may have been non-conformist. Are there any non-conformist records for the area?
[Siamese girl has already tried this: I listed all the men with the surname Fox who married plain Anns on Ancestry's London BMDs 1816-1846 made a note of the Anns surnames and then tried to find their baptisms, as many parishes at that time made a note of the date of birth as well as the date of baptism there was a (very) remote chance that I might have found Ann Fox, if she had got married as we know her date of birth. I didn't expect to find her and I was right! It was just too hit or miss.]

Mary Bryceson/Ward:
Still missing from 1841 census. The 1841 census was taken 6/7 June. Mary married Matthew Ward on the 27th June and she said she lived at Dean St then. Matthew Ward is at Richmond Buildings in 1841 and says his address is Richmond Buildings on his marriage cert. Where is Mary? She and Matthew married 20 days after the census was taken and she was ‘of Dean St’. All of Dean St (District 9) has been checked. Are there any missing addresses? Is it worth rechecking?

Nathaniel in 1841:
Where is Nathaniel in the 1841 census? As discussed at length, someone on Ancestry has made an alteration to the 1841 census transcription saying that a Nathaniel Bryceson is living in Shoreditch with someone called Ann, a weaveress, who appears to be his mother, plus several siblings. However we have traced this family and this is not our Nat. There is even some debate over the surname which looks more like Bryan and doesn't appear to be long enough to be Bryceson. Also Nathaniel never mentions any siblings. There is a Vagg family at 13 Richmond Buildings. The head, Richard Vagg is a tailor (as is Matthew Ward so perhaps they knew each other). There doesn't appear to be births/baptisms for any children for the Vaggs. The Nathaniel with them just has the surname dittoed and the age is right to be our Nat so I wonder if he was lodging with or just visiting the Vaggs and the surname was dittoed in error? Can we be fairly sure this IS Nathaniel Bryceson?

Offline Ruskie

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 24 May 14 14:51 BST (UK) »
continued....
 
Nathaniel White:
(Nat's father), and his death? Why was he in the Workhouse? How did Mary know him? Why was she involved with a pauper in the WH? He is named as the father on the baptism entry so he acknowledged that he is the father. We know that the parish was chasing him for money for support prior to Nathaniel's birth. {I can’t recall how we found out about this} Is there any more info about this in any records? Are there any WH records which name Nathaniel White, or give details of our Nat's birth? Which WH might he have been born in? Was Mary also in the WH? There is a Nathaniel White, chair maker who has been traced through the censuses - he appears to be single throughout. He lives Marylebone. Is he Nat's real father? Can we find his d/c?

Death certificates:
The following has been purchased and is the correct certificate:
Matthew Ward
Mar q 1851
STRAND, London
vol 1 p 358

Re Mary Ward death cert – We have made three searches and none are our Mary. I’m afraid I can’t find the reference numbers for the first certificate I requested, (I think) specifying her address as Richmond Buildings. Neither that nor “wife of Matthew Ward” could find the correct Mary Ward d/c. The response from the GRO: We have searched the indexes for events registered in England and Wales during the years specified (1846-1848). We have been unable to find any entry with the details you provided.

Mary Ward
Dec q 1847
St James Westminster
London
1 113 [wrong one – Mongibello ordered this and this Mary died in the Poland Street workhouse on 8 December; weeks after "our" Mary was buried.]

Mary Ward
Dec 1847
Pancras London
1 328 [wrong one – spinster who died of influenza]

As GRO form filling did not find Mary and they claim to have searched a year either side of 1847, I sent an email to them giving further details. Their response:
If you are unsure which of the possible entries found in the indexes refer to the person you are looking for, you may wish to place a research order and we will carry out a three year search of the General Register Office Indexes for the entry you are seeking.

If the name appears frequently in the indexes you can request we search a year or specific quarter of a year and we will check up to 6 possible entries in the name quoted.  You will need to make your application by phone or post however.

Additional information may be included on these orders which will help us identify an entry. You say you have a record of her being buried on 29 October 1847 which may indicate she died shortly prior to this.

We are only able to undertake searches where at the very least the year and place of the event together with the full name and surname of the person is provided.

If the search is unsuccessful we will contact you to advise no trace of an entry can be found in the details supplied and a full refund is issued.

Standard Service charge £9.25 -  15 working days
Priority Service charge £23.40 - Despatched the following working day.

General:
I wonder if any of the family made a will? Mary? Granny Shepherd? Deb looked for wills and probate? Have any new records come online which will be worth searching?

Attempting to find  Granny Shepard’s NINE other children, (presuming this is the grandmother Nat was referring to in his published interview in 1909 rather than the one on his ‘real’ father’s side).

Offline Ruskie

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 24 May 14 14:51 BST (UK) »
TIMELINE:

The following needs to be added to timeline:
Article published 20th Jan 1909 – interview with Nathaniel Bryceson – Titled “Talks of Old London” Link to the article via:
http://newspaperarchive.com/
(search by date and publication)

Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #43 on: Saturday 24 May 14 14:53 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the map ... :)

So it seems that the "building' attached to the left of the Chapel housed the shops,

red posts ...will catch up
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


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Offline Ruskie

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #44 on: Saturday 24 May 14 15:23 BST (UK) »
Percy Passage is marked on this map:
http://london1868.com/weller41b.htm