Author Topic: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again  (Read 20773 times)

Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #54 on: Saturday 24 May 14 18:54 BST (UK) »
 ;D

From Ruskie:
Ann Fox:
Birthday 9 Oct 1801 born where ? Queen St /Green St, Middx according to the 1851 census. Look at image again? Enhance image to try to see it more clearly?


Looking at the birth place of Ann Fox in 1851 I'm beginning to think that it's Queen Street.

Two lines up someone is born Middlesex, St Georges. The capital "G" is totally different than what is written for Ann POB.
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline drykid

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #55 on: Sunday 25 May 14 17:56 BST (UK) »
If you look at the English Heritage listing for 11-13 Charlotte Street (originally two terraced houses but now knocked together to form an Italian Restaurant; although Google Streetview is a bit out of date and shows the previous occupiers), it talks a bit about the previous history and how traces of the original Percy Passage shop premises remain:

http://list.english-heritage.org.uk/resultsingle.aspx?uid=1066260

Quote
Details
CITY OF WESTMINSTER CHARLOTTE STREET, Wl TQ 2981 NE 47/2 Nos. 11 and 13 II Pair of terrace houses with shops. c.1830. Stucco faced, slate roofs. 4 storeys and renewed dormered mansard. Each 3 windows wide. Ground floor has large double former shop fronts carried across, probably a late C19 alteration with broad flanking pilasters and continuous fascia with dentil cornice. To the right flank in Percy Passage the earlier C19 frame of shop front remains with gorged end stops to fascia with row of rosettes and dentil cornice, blocked openings beyond with rosettes in entablatures. The upper floors of front have recessed glazing bar sashes, all in architraves, those on 1st floor with cornices and consoles to sills on floors above. Continuous 1st floor cast iron flat patterned baluster balcony; crowning cornice and blocking course.

(These shop fronts would've been on the south side of the passage facing the chapel at the time.)




Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #56 on: Sunday 25 May 14 18:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Drykid  :)

Thanks for that.

I just went back to google streetview. The entrance to PP from Rathbone St is bricked whereas the entrance from Charlotte Street is painted and seems to have what looks to be old entrances facing what was the chapel.

Oscar, Bar and Restaurant, Charlotte Street Hotel with Percy Passage to the left
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline avm228

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #57 on: Sunday 25 May 14 18:54 BST (UK) »
The Charlotte Street Hotel has a very fine bar where I have spent many a happy evening  :D

Although the passage is now so narrow that we can't imagine shops in there, it's clear there was a bit more room for them when the chapel was in situ.

Some interesting bits of local history in this planning report:

www.rootschat.com/links/0zfj/

Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #58 on: Sunday 25 May 14 19:00 BST (UK) »
Hi avm

I was just looking at images of the interior of the Charlotte Street Hotel and wishing I had known about it when I was last in London (2010). It looks wonderful.

I bet you wish you had known of PP and Nat when you spent your happy evenings there!  ;D

Need a bit of time to read your link.

Thanks
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline drykid

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #59 on: Monday 26 May 14 00:57 BST (UK) »
Deb: thanks, for some reason I didn't study streetview properly before, but as you say you can clearly see the remains of the old store front referred to in the English Heritage entry. It looks to me like the window nearest to Charlotte Street was just an additional window for what was once a corner store, rather than a separate shop.  But further down inside it looks like there is an additional frontage so maybe this would have belonged to a second shop.  And therefore that could be the one we're looking for.


Although the passage is now so narrow that we can't imagine shops in there, it's clear there was a bit more room for them when the chapel was in situ.

Good point; I was completely forgetting that - at least during Nat's time there - the chapel was still in place.  Although looking at this drawing it doesn't look much wider:



Also there was - or at least there was when that drawing was done - a small two-storey building between the chapel and the passage itself (as well as a similar one on the opposite side of the chapel.)

Offline Ruskie

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #60 on: Monday 26 May 14 01:50 BST (UK) »
I will read all the links provided later.

Description by English Heritage is a great find Drykid.

I was thinking along the same lines as others - that the Passage must have been wider when the Chapel was there. You can see on the maps - it actually doesn't look very narrow. In the drawing I think it looks reasonably wide too. It is logical that when they destroyed the Chapel, that the buildings they built in it's place would be slightly wider in order to get that little bit extra room.
So would the shops along Percy Passage open into the building opposite the side of the Chapel, or were the shops like stalls set up inside the passage? . I need to go back and check what buildings are there.

Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #61 on: Monday 26 May 14 02:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Ruskie,

I imagine that little shops were in the building to the left of the chapel and were entered by the passage. If he was in a directory I would imagine that the bookstore would have to be in a building as opposed to a stall.

If you click on the street view here this is the Charlotte Street entrance to PP ...you can look down the passage to the other side which exits into Rathbone Street (the bricked side). I actually took a stroll to the left, down Charlotte Street and wound around into Rathbone St where you can look down the passage and see the bricked in windows.

link to google maps, Percy Passage, London: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=percy+passage+london&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x48761b2c7798ed01:0xc1607bd59d67214e,Percy+Passage,+Fitzrovia,+London+W1T+1RQ,+UK&gl=us&ei=SJuCU57CIq-2sATZkIHgBg&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ8gEwAA


Drykid , if you do go to PP maybe you'll be able to give us a better idea of where the doors and windows were.
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline deb usa

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Re: The Diary of Nathaniel Bryceson Revisited Again
« Reply #62 on: Monday 26 May 14 03:48 BST (UK) »
Another thought......

In 1851 I found people living at 4, 5 and 8 Percy Passage.

At #4 we had Samuel (cheesemonger) and Thomas Knight (Tailor) with possibly their younger brother, Charles and in another room, Samuel ?, a shoemaker.

#5 Margaret Discomb, a servant

#8 Stephen Bland, a cutler

The next "street" enumerated is Bedford Passage. Prior to PP is Pitt Street... I can't spot either on maps.

I am wondering if the shops were downstairs and people roomed upstairs as I find Stephen Bland still in PP in 1841 along with other families. Unfortunately there are no house numbers.

Joseph Sears, 70 shoemaker
//
Maria Ridgeway, 42, china dealer
//
George Basham, 20, smith
Harriet do. 23
Eliza do. 3 months
//
George Goulden, 51, tailor
Hannah do. 56
//
Stephen Bland 39, working(?) cutler
Deborah do. 36
Stephen  do. 14
John 12
Charles 7
Sarah 4
Susannah 7 months
Harriet 17

Next place enumerated is Bedford Passage.

deb





Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk