Do you think I've found Anthony Royal's birth and parents?

[Duodecem]

This mariner was the subject of a rootschat question http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=293824.0 that generated a lot of interest between 2008 and 2013
 I've been looking a bit further and have come up with some theories which I'd really like an opinion on please. 

The most likely birth record for Anthony seems to be a baptism at St Johns Timberhill  Norwich in 1774 to Thomas Royall and Elizabeth Moore. The couple married in the same church in 1767, Elizabeth was a widow. Anthony was an unusual name and there are no other likely baptism records. His census returns give 1778 as an approximate birth year so 1774 seems possible. The census also places his birth in Yarmouth , but if he moved there as an infant he may have considered it his pob. 
There were other sons-Thomas 1770 and John 1771. Then in Yarmouth, Robert 1776 and Nursey 1778 died 1779, and finally Mary 1780.
Thomas died in 1799, unusually his burial record gives  both his age 29 and his parent's details- Thomas and Elizabeth, mother nee Moore. (Obviously she wasn't born Moore but it was her name before marriage) This seems to confirm the fact that Thomas and Elizabeth moved from Norwich to Yarmouth.
I haven't found a birth for Thomas in either Norwich or Yarmouth. BUT there was an Anthony Royall who was baptised in Yarmouth on 12th November 1738, son of Anthony Royall and Alfrita (spelling varies widely!)* Dye. Among Anthony and Alfrita's children was one called Nussey bap 1745. It doesn't seem impossible that Thomas was one of the children of Anthony and Alfrita and his baptism record is missing. Other children were George, Elizabeth and James. (Anthony Royal named 2 of his younger sons George and James)

Finally a burial record Yarmouth 1801 Elizabeth Royal aged 59- notes Her maiden name was Read. Thomas Reed was the name Anthony Royal used when he first enlisted in the Navy.

Oh -and Anthony's first son, by an earlier marriage,was named Thomas. Thomas was born in Plymouth in 1816, but his marriage to Elizabeth Cook in Yarmouth in 1839 names Anthony Royal as his father.

Most of the records are on Freereg and some are also on Ancestry.
There are several trees on Ancestry but they seem to send the family across Norfolk to Methwold and Tilney so I suspect their Thomas is part of different family

I would love to know what other people think.   

[Yorkslass]

Hello Jan,

I'm sorry no-one has replied to your post .... maybe like me, people are worried about offering advice in case it turns out to be wrong 

I know Freereg and Family Search have indexed a lot of Norfolk records, and I agree the only likely suspect is the Anthony Royall born Norwich.

Some of my ancestors moved between Norwich and Yarmouth - so nothing unusual in that.

The christian name "Nursey" is so unusual, I agree it must be a family name, and Anthony and Elizabeth's son Thomas's burial in 1799 I would say adds weight to the fact they moved from Norwich to Yarmouth.

The only thing I would disagree with is the marriage record of Thomas Royall and Elizabeth Moore.
You say she was a widow .... but the entry in the marriage register shows her as a single woman -

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0131p/

And perhaps more interesting is that they married by Licence.

I've had a quick look at the Norfolk Marriage Bonds for 1767, but the sheer number of pages to look through without an index is a bit daunting .....

Hope this kicks off a few more replies.

Yorkslass

[Duodecem]

Ah-so the Freereg transcription was wrong in saying BrideConditionWidow
Well that's one theory gone-a pity I rather liked it and it fitted very well with Anthony's assumed name when he first joined the navy.
I wonder who this was?-buried Yarmouth St Nicholas 1801 Elizabeth wife of Thomas ROYAL Age59 NotesHer maiden name was Read.
So-obviously Elizabeth's maiden name was Moore and it isn't her buried in 1801. And there's no longer an explanation as to why Anthony chose Thomas Reed as his pseudonym-though it's fairly obvious why he chose the Thomas part.
Thank you Yorkslass-I'd rather have a tree that's accurate  -I should have though of looking for the originals. I wonder if Thomas's birth is there but not transcribed.
"And perhaps more interesting is that they married by Licence."
 
I'm still a bit unclear about marriage by licence-does that mean no banns and if so what was the significance?
I did look briefly at the marriage bonds but I see what you mean-I couldn't read the images of the ones I looked at to determine if I had the right people/place/year! I would perservere if you think it's worth it.
I thought that Nursey as a name was probably from a surname. I'm glad you agree Thomas father of Anthony Royal was probably related to Anthony Royall bapt 1738 and Nursey/Nussey bapt 1745.
At least I've established that Thomas and Elizabeth moved from Norwich to Yarmouth which is something. Thanks again for your interest Jan

[Yorkslass]

Hi again,

I couldn't find any marriage between a Royal and a Read, so no idea who the lady is .... but it could still be "your" Elizabeth - they did make mistakes in the registers as we know, and the age would certainly fit.

As to the Marriage Bond - I've been lucky I guess in that the ones I found for my lot were legible and gave some interesting information.

I did find Thomas Royal and Elizabeth's Bond ..... luckily there was an entry on Family Search for their marriage which gave me a clue as to which Diocese to search, but it took a while .... 
and here it is -  there is a second page at image no. 259, but nothing extra.

Very faint I'm afraid .... and most annoyingly I can't decipher Thomas's occupation.
The other Bondsman as you'll see, is one of the witnesses to his marriage, James Osborne.

 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01380/

This link is to the Family Search site, but these Bonds are also available now on Ancestry ... but it's no clearer on there unfortunately.

Yorkslass

[Yorkslass]

Hi Jan,

Think I've found the "Nursey" connection too!

A marriage between James Royall and Mary Nursey in Great Yarmouth, in 1710 - second column, second from the top.  I see he was a widower, and she a single woman.

 http://www.rootschat.com/links/0138v/

Yorkslass

[Duodecem]

Sorry I've been so slow to reply-computer problems! I don't know how you managed to find the marriage bond and the marriage-I can barely read the names and only because you told me what they are.
So -it seems highly likely that Anthony Royal was the son of Thomas Royal and Elizabeth Moore, baptised in Norwich in 1774 but moved to Yarmouth by the time his brother Robert was baptised two years later.
Thomas was very likely the son of Anthony Royal(l), who, in turn was the son of James Royall and Mary Nursey.  The name Nursey , given to children of both Anthony snr and Thomas, seems fairly definite evidence.
The is a baptism on familysearch for James Royall 26 April 1685 son of Antho(ny?)and Mary
 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JMTN-H7Q It seems likely-especially as he was a widower when he married Mary Nursey.
Thank you so much Yorkslass-any further thoughts gratefully received!

[Yorkslass]

Hello again Jan,

Hope your computer problems are sorted.  I've been having trouble with Firefox ...

The Marriage Bond is so difficult to read - I downloaded it to one of my photo editing programmes and messed about, but still can't read that occupation.
At least I can read the fact that they were both single, and both of the age of 21 and upwards.

I was intrigued by the fact that the Bond was dated 27th October, and the marriage was the very next day!  Why the big hurry?  I wondered if he was a sailor, about to leave quickly ....

I'm also intrigued about Anthony's alias, Thomas Read .... wonder why?

So I've been looking for details about Anthony's first wife, and found their marriage.
Apologies if you already have this

It was at Stoke Damerel/Devonport on the 9 January 1805, by Licence.
The register shows him as "Anthony Ryal" a Boatswain's Mate, Bachelor, of the Spartiate, so it's definitely him.
His wife was one Ann Breeze .... a widow 

I know you have a baptism of a Thomas Royall in Plymouth in 1816.
Thomas was baptised at Stoke Damerel on 9 July 1815, by Anthony Royal, a mariner, and Ann.

There may be another baptism - 25 October, 1807 at Stoke Damerel - Ann Walker Royal, daughter of Anthony and Ann.

Yorkslass

[Duodecem]

Thank you so much-that's a brilliant bit of detective work! I'd searched in vain for any record of Anthony's first marriage.
I found his son Thomas's birth on his merchant navy Masters and Mates certificate where it is given as "born Plymouth 25 June 1816" a year after the baptism -perhaps he made a mistake?
I was certain that Thomas was Anthony's son because of his 1839 marriage record but I have not seen any records for Ann Walker Royal. Perhaps she remained with members of her mother's family after her mother's death.
There are two burial records for an Ann Royal in Yarmouth-in 1817 and 1819 either of whom could have been Ann Breeze. Or she may have died in Plymouth. Anthony married again-to Ann Bentham, in 1820.

[TheRoyal]

This mariner was the subject of a rootschat question http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=293824.0 that generated a lot of interest between 2008 and 2013
 I've been looking a bit further and have come up with some theories which I'd really like an opinion on please. 

The most likely birth record for Anthony seems to be a baptism at St Johns Timberhill  Norwich in 1774 to Thomas Royall and Elizabeth Moore. The couple married in the same church in 1767, Elizabeth was a widow. Anthony was an unusual name and there are no other likely baptism records. His census returns give 1778 as an approximate birth year so 1774 seems possible. The census also places his birth in Yarmouth , but if he moved there as an infant he may have considered it his pob. 
There were other sons-Thomas 1770 and John 1771. Then in Yarmouth, Robert 1776 and Nursey 1778 died 1779, and finally Mary 1780.
Thomas died in 1799, unusually his burial record gives  both his age 29 and his parent's details- Thomas and Elizabeth, mother nee Moore. (Obviously she wasn't born Moore but it was her name before marriage) This seems to confirm the fact that Thomas and Elizabeth moved from Norwich to Yarmouth.
I haven't found a birth for Thomas in either Norwich or Yarmouth. BUT there was an Anthony Royall who was baptised in Yarmouth on 12th November 1738, son of Anthony Royall and Alfrita (spelling varies widely!)* Dye. Among Anthony and Alfrita's children was one called Nussey bap 1745. It doesn't seem impossible that Thomas was one of the children of Anthony and Alfrita and his baptism record is missing. Other children were George, Elizabeth and James. (Anthony Royal named 2 of his younger sons George and James)

Finally a burial record Yarmouth 1801 Elizabeth Royal aged 59- notes Her maiden name was Read. Thomas Reed was the name Anthony Royal used when he first enlisted in the Navy.

Oh -and Anthony's first son, by an earlier marriage,was named Thomas. Thomas was born in Plymouth in 1816, but his marriage to Elizabeth Cook in Yarmouth in 1839 names Anthony Royal as his father.

Most of the records are on Freereg and some are also on Ancestry.
There are several trees on Ancestry but they seem to send the family across Norfolk to Methwold and Tilney so I suspect their Thomas is part of different family

I would love to know what other people think.   

Hi Jan,

This is great thanks - Anthony is my 4th great grandfather and I'm just beginning to dip my toe into all this. Really fascinating to see.

I too would LOVE to find out why he'd assume an alias upon mustering!

Cheers