Author Topic: Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end  (Read 5948 times)

Offline rondaf76

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Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end
« on: Saturday 21 June 14 11:07 BST (UK) »
Hi all :)

I've hit a mess of weeds in my family tree and hoped that more seasoned genealogists would be able to help me untangle it.

My great great grandmother was Minna Ruby Kirkland. She was born in Bungawalbin, NSW, around 1882/1883. Her death certificate lists her father as [unknown] Kirkland and her mother is unknown. On her marriage certificate, her father is listed as William Henry Kirkland [deceased] and her mother is listed as Eliza Ann Campbell.

However, Eliza Ann Campbell married Henry Kirkland, not William Henry Kirkland (see attached death cert). Henry Kirkland died before Minna was born. Eliza's death certificate does not have Minna listed as her child. Eliza did have a son called William Henry, and I thought perhaps Minna was his child, but his death certificate has no marriage or children listed.

So it's a bit of a mystery. There's an obituary on Trove for her but it doesn't give any more information than I already have.

Is it simply a case that she was the product of some kind of "unholy alliance" and records of her birth weren't kept? Can anyone suggest any other avenues that I could explore? I'm really hoping to solve this mystery.  :D

Thanks,
Ronda.
Patch, Counsell, Jeffree, Kelly, Jupp, Salkeld, Gow, Doust, Estreich, Kirkland, Nye, Cummings, Field, Russ, Short, Jones, Pamplin, Randall, Mitchell, Ravencroft, Christie, Graham, O'Donnell, Franklin, Evans, Holmes.

Offline Craclyn

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Re: Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 21 June 14 11:40 BST (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat.
Looking at the ages of the children of William Henry and Eliza there are several who would have been old enough to be a parent for Minna. If she was born out of wedlock and raised by her grandparents it is not inconceivable that their names might have been used as parents on her marriage certificate.
I would suggest that you look more closely at the older "siblings" and try to assess whether one of them might have been her parent.
I would also look for alternative first names that may have been on a birth certificate but forgotten about by the time she married. Minna could be a pet name. Maybe she was a Whilhelmina or a Mary or some other name.
Crackett, Cracket, Webb, Turner, Henderson, Murray, Carr, Stavers, Thornton, Oliver, Davis, Hall, Anderson, Atknin, Austin, Bainbridge, Beach, Bullman, Charlton, Chator, Corbett, Corsall, Coxon, Davis, Dinnin, Dow, Farside, Fitton, Garden, Geddes, Gowans, Harmsworth, Hedderweek, Heron, Hedley, Hunter, Ironside, Jameson, Johnson, Laidler, Leck, Mason, Miller, Milne, Nesbitt, Newton, Parkinson, Piery, Prudow, Reay, Reed, Read, Reid, Robinson, Ruddiman, Smith, Tait, Thompson, Watson, Wilson, Youn

Offline Billyblue

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Re: Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 21 June 14 11:42 BST (UK) »
Hello Ronda and welcome to RootsChat.

You don't give any indication on your profile as to where you may be located, so if you are based in NSW you may already know this.

The Kirkland family (but not the names you have posted) ran a coach company in the Northern Rivers area up to Queensland and down to Sydney.  Not sure if they still do.

You could look at http://kirklandshistory.blogspot.com.au/
  or  www.kirklandshistory.com

which may give you some ideas.


Dawn M
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)


Offline rondaf76

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Re: Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 21 June 14 11:48 BST (UK) »
Looking at the ages of the children of William Henry and Eliza there are several who would have been old enough to be a parent for Minna. If she was born out of wedlock and raised by her grandparents it is not inconceivable that their names might have been used as parents on her marriage certificate. I would suggest that you look more closely at the older "siblings" and try to assess whether one of them might have been her parent.

OK, I'll do this. Aren't we lucky that we live in an era where such occurrences aren't swept under the carpet? :)

Welcome to Rootschat.
I would also look for alternative first names that may have been on a birth certificate but forgotten about by the time she married. Minna could be a pet name. Maybe she was a Whilhelmina or a Mary or some other name.

OK I'll have a look. I wasn't really sure what Minna could be short for but I'll have a bit of a Google and see what I can find.

Thanks for your suggestions. It's good to have a fresh perspective on things when you've been staring at a brick wall for a while.  :D
Patch, Counsell, Jeffree, Kelly, Jupp, Salkeld, Gow, Doust, Estreich, Kirkland, Nye, Cummings, Field, Russ, Short, Jones, Pamplin, Randall, Mitchell, Ravencroft, Christie, Graham, O'Donnell, Franklin, Evans, Holmes.

Offline rondaf76

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Re: Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 21 June 14 11:51 BST (UK) »
The Kirkland family (but not the names you have posted) ran a coach company in the Northern Rivers area up to Queensland and down to Sydney.  Not sure if they still do.

You could look at http://kirklandshistory.blogspot.com.au/
  or  www.kirklandshistory.com

which may give you some ideas.

Oh wow! That's an interesting little one! They're all from up around that way, so no doubt they're connected in some way.

(Thanks for the profile reminder - I'll go in and fix it up now :)
Patch, Counsell, Jeffree, Kelly, Jupp, Salkeld, Gow, Doust, Estreich, Kirkland, Nye, Cummings, Field, Russ, Short, Jones, Pamplin, Randall, Mitchell, Ravencroft, Christie, Graham, O'Donnell, Franklin, Evans, Holmes.

Offline Craclyn

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Re: Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 21 June 14 11:57 BST (UK) »
I have a couple of Wilhelminas in my treee who ended up as Minnie, so that could well be a starting point for a Minna too.
Crackett, Cracket, Webb, Turner, Henderson, Murray, Carr, Stavers, Thornton, Oliver, Davis, Hall, Anderson, Atknin, Austin, Bainbridge, Beach, Bullman, Charlton, Chator, Corbett, Corsall, Coxon, Davis, Dinnin, Dow, Farside, Fitton, Garden, Geddes, Gowans, Harmsworth, Hedderweek, Heron, Hedley, Hunter, Ironside, Jameson, Johnson, Laidler, Leck, Mason, Miller, Milne, Nesbitt, Newton, Parkinson, Piery, Prudow, Reay, Reed, Read, Reid, Robinson, Ruddiman, Smith, Tait, Thompson, Watson, Wilson, Youn

Offline giblet

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Re: Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 21 June 14 21:51 BST (UK) »
Minna isnt mentioned as a sibling in William Henry's obit neither.

The late Mr. Kirkland was a bachelor and is survived by three sisters, Mrs. G. Shepherd (Casino), Mrs. J. Watterston (Woodburn), and Mrs. J. T. Clark (Coraki). Another sister, Mrs. Abbott, died some years ago in Queensland. Brothers are, Albert (Kyogle) and James (Nimbin). Two other brothers, John and Richard, predeceased him. 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/94119962?

Offline rondaf76

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Re: Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 21 June 14 22:02 BST (UK) »
Minna isnt mentioned as a sibling in William Henry's obit neither.

The late Mr. Kirkland was a bachelor and is survived by three sisters, Mrs. G. Shepherd (Casino), Mrs. J. Watterston (Woodburn), and Mrs. J. T. Clark (Coraki). Another sister, Mrs. Abbott, died some years ago in Queensland. Brothers are, Albert (Kyogle) and James (Nimbin). Two other brothers, John and Richard, predeceased him. 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/94119962?

I obviously need to brush up on my Trove searching skills because I thought I'd exhausted every possible search term on Trove! Hadn't spotted that snippet before. Thank you so much!
Patch, Counsell, Jeffree, Kelly, Jupp, Salkeld, Gow, Doust, Estreich, Kirkland, Nye, Cummings, Field, Russ, Short, Jones, Pamplin, Randall, Mitchell, Ravencroft, Christie, Graham, O'Donnell, Franklin, Evans, Holmes.

Offline giblet

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Re: Help! Kirkland/Estreich dead end
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 21 June 14 22:12 BST (UK) »
I wonder if Eliza Ann had a will and if Minna is mentioned in that  ???