Joseph Smith- Lambeth - Help to find him please

[Captain2]

On the Attestation Papers of Frederick William Smith dated Sept 1889 his next of kin  are named and include in his family a younger brother Joseph, who I was unaware of.  I would like to try and trace Joseph, his birth and I presume his death.  I do not at present have access to the 1891 census but I have in the past and I don't have record of him in the family.

The 1891 census details that I have noted previously are that the family were resident at Dolphin Cottage, 2 William Street, Lambeth
Thomas J Smith - General Labourer. Head
Ellen (his wife)
Children at home
Edith
Arthur
Rose (Lily)
Edward J
Albert (8 months)

The remaining children
Thomas (1871)                     
Frederick William ( 1873)        In the Army in 1891
Ellen (1876)                           
Alice (1878)                         
Although not at home, are all named on the 1889 papers.

As a first step a  check of the 1891 census to make sure that I did not miss him would be great

Any help greatly appreciated

Many thanks

[rosie99]

What is Edwards middle name 

Do you have the ref number for the 91 census please

[MargP]

Hi

Is this your Frederick

Frederick William Smith
Baptised 13 April 1873
Father Thomas Smith
Mother Ellen Rutland Smith
St Mary Lambeth

If it is there is this record

Thomas JOSEPH Smith
Baptised 19 May 1872
Father Thomas Smith
Mother Ellen Rutland Smith
Christ Church Southwark

Margp

[Captain2]

Hi Rosie

Edward James.. no, sorry I don't have the census number.  Interestingly, Edward (born 1888) is not mentioned on the Attestation Papers in 1889, I'm wondering if this little guy is Edward Joseph and not  Edward James?  and is known as Joseph ? As I said a check of the 1891 census would be a help.

Hi MargP

Many thanks for the baptism details for the two eldest boys.   Frederick William was born on 22 March 1873 so that helps to have his baptism, I am uncertain of the birth date for Thomas, so again his baptism details are a bonus.

Many thanks again for your help all (any) info always gratefully received

[rosie99]

On further investigation he appears to be Edward James.
I can't see the family in 1891 - some ages & places of birth might help.  Street searches are a pain since a certain website had a major overhaul. A ref number can take you straight there on both major sites

[MargP]

Rose Lydia Smith, Baptism 5 Apr 1885

Fathers Name
Thomas Smith

Mothers Name
Ellen Radland Smith

Lambeth St Mary

Margp

[MaureeninNY]

Rosie-in 1891 the family are:
395/ 37/Page: 24

and in 1881:
596/ 19/Page: 33

I can see Thomas Joseph's service records-he marries a Julia UNDERWOOD.
He gives brother's names as Arthur William and James Edward (RFA).

Maureen

[Captain2]

Thanks MargP for the baptism's.. great help

Thanks so much for looking Rosie, much appreciated.

The family are

Thomas Joseph Smith         b. St Georges, Southwark 1846
Ellen Rudland                     b. St Clement Danes, Westminster 1851
Thomas   1872                  b. (thanks to MargP) Christchurch, Southwark - (may say Lambeth)
Frederick  1873                  b. Lambeth
Ellen 1876                         b. Lambeth
Alice  1878                        b. Lambeth
Edith 1880                        b. Lambeth
Arthur William 1882           b. Lambeth
Rose 1885                        b. Lambeth
Edward James 1888 (?)      b. Lambeth
Albert George 1890            b. Lambeth

The family consistently live at 2 William Street, Lambeth.  They are there in the 1881.  Thomas (the father) died in 1897 so by 1901 Ellen has remarried and is living in Distin Street, Lambeth .. no sign of a son Joseph ?
By by reckoning he must have been born between 1881-1889 and died before 1891.  As I said I may have missed him on the 1891 so wanted to rule that one out before I start looking..

Thanks again for all your help

[Ladyhawk]

I can't see the family in 1891 - some ages & places of birth might help. 
Street searches are a pain since a certain website had a major overhaul.

A ref number can take you straight there on both major sites

RG 12 Piece number   395 Folio number   37 Page   24

T   Smith   47   1844   Southwark  Labourer   
E   Smith   39   1852   St Pancras   
Edith   Smith   10   1881   Lambeth
Arthur Smith       5   1886   
Rose Smith    6   1885   
James Smith      3   1888   
Albert Smith   0   1891