John Christian Welman

[AndreaLevison]

Hello

This is my first post , so forgive me if I mess up! I'm trying to search for a John Welman, actually, John Christian Welman, possibly born around 1890 plus, who may have been with the East Kent Regiment as a private sometime between 1914-20 and then left for South Africa, he died in 1932. He was married to a Nancy E Cooks, not sure if she is UK born.

He was born possibly or lived in Devonport, or Devonshire.

Regards Andrea

[janan]

Hi Andrea

Welcome to Rootschat

There are a couple of possibles in the right area  that I can see in 1901, there may be others - William J C Wellman born Plymouth 1895 and a John Wellman born Norwood Surrey living in Sidmouth Devon.

Do you have your John's marriage certficate to Nancy? If you do does it give his father's name?

Where does the information come from about him being born/living near Devonport? Also where did you get the East Kent Regiment info from please?

Jan

[AndreaLevison]

Hi Jan

I am doing a family tree for a friend who is the grandson of John Christian Welman, so am working from his recollections and memories, his mother was named Jacoba Wilhelmina Welman nee Groenewald, was married to his father William Henry Welman in 1952. William Henry Welman was the child of John Christian Welman born 1932 and was aged 4 in 1936 when his father died. John Christian Welman was married to a woman named Nancy Elizabeth, born Cooks I believe, but also known as Welman, Estherhuizen and Koekemoer, who died in 1966.

The military history stems from the fact that my friend was given his grandfathers war medals (unfortunately they were stolen) so a search of John Welman throws up several possibles..............among them a John Welman who signed up in 1901 at (it says aged 18 and 6 months) giving a possible birth date of around 1883 as a private.
The record I have, and at this stage it is still just guesswork, is from the WW1 pension records 1914-20.

Info as follows, East Kent Regiment, The Buffs, John Welman, parish of St Albans, Town of Devonport, County of Devonshire...............there is a no. 6522 and o another record I found and have ordered, the number is 46522 and relates to medals of which I know nothing, but a '14 clasp and star or rose is mentioned.
My friend was also given his grandfathers bayonet, which was also stolen, if that helps.......The trail has now grown cold with both John Christian Welman and Nancy Elizabeth Cooks and records in South Africa are scanty.
There is also a connection with Kimberley in South Africa, as William Henry Welman was a chef on board the famous blue train and met his wife Jacoba in Kimberley.

And that, is as much information as I have, I cannot locate marriage or birth certificates for Nancy or John, only a death notice for John which lists Nancy as the spouse.

I have the same Welman possibles as you have suggested, but don't really know where to go next.....outbound passenger lists from the UK don't throw anything up.

[AndreaLevison]

How do you attach an image from p.c. and I can attach a medal record, meanwhile it does say 14' star clasp and roses and the date is 13/01/20. the theatre of war served in is France, date of entry, 07/09/14

[janan]

I've had a look at the records but without the all important middle-name it is as you say pure guesswork. There doesn't seem to be a John Christian Welman birth registered anywhere in England and Wales - so either he acquired the middle name later or perhaps he was born John Christian and then his mother married/remarried a Welman later.

It is a terrible shame the medals were stolen although, even if you had his service number it may not have helped as a lot of WW1 service records were destroyed in WW2.

I'm not sure how you are going to sort this one out I will keep burrowing.

I've asked a moderator to move your bit of this thread to the beginners board where you will get more people diving in with thoughts!

Jan

[avm228]

And that, is as much information as I have, I cannot locate marriage or birth certificates for Nancy or John, only a death notice for John which lists Nancy as the spouse.

Does the death notice give an age at death for John?

[avm228]

I wonder whether the military medals were in fact not WW1 medals but from the Boer War(s)? 

I notice that Private Johan Christian Welman jr of the Graaff-Reinet Town Guard was awarded the South Africa Medal and Clasps, under the Army Order granting the medal, issued on 1 April 1901.

If this was the right man then he may have been born in South Africa and lived there all his life, which would explain the apparent absence of English records and passenger lists in his name.

Obviously he would have had to be born significantly before the c1890 birthdate you have for him, which is why I asked whether the death notice gives any indication of his age.  Where in South Africa did he die, and has a grave been found?

[AndreaLevison]

avm 228

I think you may be right, I received today a document that totally contradicts what my friend has been told.........he is a little in shock as he has always been told that his grandfather was English.

I have a picture of his death entry and it would seem that he was indeed Johan Christian Welman...............the Christian not being spelled the traditional Afrikaans way of Christiaan and was 45 years and 8 months old when he died on 09/06/1936.

This does indeed seem to be the correct man because he was married to Nancy Elizabeth Welman and one of his children is called William Henry, born 09/04/1932, my friends father.

I wish records were more accessible in South Africa, I paid for a shonky photo of the death entry.

[janan]

It may take some digesting for your friend but it is some kind of progress. However if he was only 45 when he died in 1936 he can't be the Johan Christian Welman who was in the Boer War unless of course the age is wrong he may have lied to Nancy as he was actually much older than her?

There are quite a few Ancestry trees mentioning various Johan Christian Welman's born at various times - these may offer some possible leads as to where to go next, although none of the trees I glanced at seemed to have many sources and some may be copied from each other. Probably worth a look.

Jan