Paisley parish baptism - Edwards

[geniesjm]

Hi Alison, Many thanks for your messages and Edwards family information, which I had assembled from various sources, and especially from you.  As I have only just joined Rootschat, I am unable to send a personal message as yet.

I have found the following records for Sarah Edwards, which appear to fit?

Burial record - Liverpool C of E Burials, 1813-1974 in the Parish of West Derby, Church of St.Mary, Edge Hill, Lancaster 1868 - Sarah Edwards, Abode Harrogate, buried September 18th, age 80.

Free BMD - England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Deaths - Sarah Edwards 1868 Sept. Qtr. 80 Knaresbro’ 9a 82
(Ancestry - Estimated birth year abt 1788 - County Yorkshire West Riding)

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Admins.) 1858-1966:
Will Sarah Edwards 11 December 1868 – formerly of Liverpool in the County of Lancaster but late of Harrogate in the County of York Widow deceased who died 13th September 1868 at Harrogate aforesaid was proved at Wakefield by the oath of Eleanor Jackson of Harrogate aforesaid Spinster the Niece the sole Executrix.  Effects under 100 pounds.

Eleanor Jackson was born 16 Jan.1813 to parents Peter Russell Jackson, Gentm, & Elizabeth, abode Headingley, baptised 22 April 1813 Leeds, St.Peter [Yorks], but don’t know whether her mother was a Jones or Edwards (or neither), however both Peter and Elizabeth appear to have been born in Leeds!

Also, I found a possible death for Samuel Edwards on Free BMD - Deaths Sept.Qtr. 1854
Liverpool 8b 116?

It is really great to hear from you and I will send you more details on John Edwards soon.
Best wishes
Sylvia

[Ali M]

Hi Sylvia,

I have some not so good news about Sarah and her will.  It looked such a good match with the dates and where she lived etc too BUT the 1851 and 61 censuses  unfortunately tell a different story. (you will remember that "our" Sarah is with son joseph in 51 and daughter Sarah in 61)
Here's what I've found:
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
61, Grove Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Sarah Edwards Head Widow Female 62 1789Annuintant
Leeds, Yorkshire, England
 
Robert Hutchison Son Unmarried Male 35 1816 General Merchant
Liverpool, Lancashire, England
 
Elizabeth Jackson Visitor Widow Female 67 1784 Annuitant
Leeds, Yorkshire, England   this has to be Eleanor's mother
 
Ann Roberts Servant Unmarried Female 32 1819 Servant
Denbighshire, Wales
 
Sarah Rodgers Servant Unmarried Female 22 1829 Servant
Flintshire, Wales

and 1861:
6, Canning Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

 
Robert Hutchison Head Unmarried Male 44 1817 Gen Merchant & Shipowner
Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Sarah Edwards Mother Widow Female 72 1789
Leeds, Yorkshire, England
 
Annie Johnston Visitor Unmarried Female 28 1833 Governess
Dublin, Dublin, Ireland

Lydia E Whitaker Visitor Female 10 1851 Scholar Harrogate, Yorkshire, England
 
Rosa H Whitaker  Female 7 1854 ScholarYorkshire, England


and finally , again from 1851 a census entry where the household head is missing (Elizabeth Jackson?)
2, Park Parade, Knaresborough, Yorkshire, England
Eleanor Jackson Daughter Unmarried Female 36 1815 Annuitant
Headingley, Yorkshire, England
 
Henry Whitaker Brother-In-Law Married Male 41 1810 Agent For Silks Of Colton Warps
Greenholme, Yorkshire, England
 
Lydia Whitaker Sister-In-Law Married Female 40 1811
Leeds, Yorkshire, England
 
Elizabeth L Whitaker Daughter Unmarried Female 01851
Harrogate, Yorkshire, England

So I think this Sarah is the sister of Elizabeth Jackson.
They might well be both  nee Dickinson 
(Eliz m. Peter Jackson 1807 in Leeds  and Sarah m. John Edwards around that time - lost my bit of paper! 
 But it does not explain Sarah's wealthy son Robert Hutchison! for whom I can find no satisfactory birth record.   Perhaps its as well they are not ours as they seem even more complicated than Sarah and Samuel !!

What do you think about this? 
warm wishes
Alison

[Rosinish]

It appears that Samuel was born in Renfrewshire, Scotland (SP)

(Bap 18/07/1769)
Parish, Greenock New or Middle
Parish No. 564/1
Ref 10 351
Parents Thomas Edward & Janet (Fairie) Fairie may actually be Fairlie?
(Fr 222)

Annie

ADDED: Please ignore, been reading back & note this has already been discounted.

However, I feel there is definitely a connection as I doubt he would pick "Paisley" out of nowhere.

There may have been a crisis & another family member brought him up, hence his reason for giving a different name for father?
He may have been brought up by his grandparents which does happen?

[Ali M]

Hi Annie,
although this baptism is too early to be Samuel - def. born close to 1787, I do think you are right about the word "Paisley" .  Even  a Welsh accent to a Liverpudlian ear  wouldn't, I think any way, make a Flintshire village name sound like Paisley. So he remains a mystery 

many thanks, Alison

[Rosinish]

Ali,

Too much to read back but were any of his children named after his given mother's name?

It's also possible he was illegitimate & knew his father was "someone" Edward(s) from Renfrew?

Annie

[Ali M]

Hi Annie,
yes they were.  he and Sarah were helpfully unoriginal in their naming!
Her parents were  Edward and Anne.  His, according to his marriage cert, were John and Elizabeth.  Children in order of birth were-  Edward, John, Samuel, Anne-Elizabeth, Sarah  and finally Joseph!
Not exactly proof  but fairly convincing.  Don't know if there is anything in the fact her parents were "honoured"  first

Ali

[geniesjm]

Hi Alison,

Many thanks for your response to my information on Sarah Edwards.  I must admit that I was rather disappointed, but you have done a great job in proving it to be wrong.  I suppose I was a bit unsure when I found that Elizabeth & Peter Jackson were both born in Leeds.  I am sorry that I put you to all that work, but I am glad that you were able to correct my mistake.

I have the following information for John Edwards born 1814 Liverpool, Lancashire to Samuel Edwards & Sarah Jones.
 
At the Lancashire Quarter Sessions, Kirkdale Session on 23 January 1832,
John Edwards (together with Joseph Green) were convicted of stealing silver plate – 8 spoons, 5 forks and 2 salt cellars (total value of 4 pounds) and were sentenced to transportation for 14 years each.  John arrived in NSW aboard the “Parmellia” on 16 October 1832.  He was a ropemaker in Liverpool but became a sawyer (treecutter)/Farmer in northern NSW.

He married Agnes Thomson 8 November 1842 in Port Macquarie, NSW.  Agnes was born about 1819 in Glasgow to parents William Thomson and ?Agnes McFie (possible marriage 16 July 1819 Glasgow).  Agnes came to Australia as a free person with her uncle Peter Thompson and his wife Janet Robertson  William & Peter Thompson’s parents were Archibald Thompson, Brass Moulder, and Elisabeth Bain of Glasgow.  (These are my only Scottish ancestors, unless it can be proven that Samuel was born in Scotland.)

John and Agnes had 7 children, Samuel b.1843, John b.1845 died bef.1859, Edward b.1847, Archibald Peter b.1850, Jessie Mary b.1852 (my gt.gm), Florence Agnes b.1854, Lilly Anne b.1857.

Sadly both John and Agnes died young at the Macleay River NSW - John died in 1859, aged about 45 years and Agnes died in 1862 aged about 43 years.

It is interesting to note that on John Edwards death certificate his father Samuel Edwards is listed as an Engineer!!

I still think that Samuel may have been born in Wales, where he was married (otp), but if only he had made it to the 1861 census as did Sarah we would have known for sure.

Best wishes
Sylvia

[Ali M]

Hi Sylvia
thank you very much for all your information on John Edwards and his family which I had no idea of.  Are you in Australia?   I'm in New Zealand  -  my parents emigrated from Liverpool when I was 6.

I'm fairly certain that Samuel's parents were a John and Eliz as per his marriage cert & his children's names  so I did a search for Samuels born any where to a John and Eliz Edwards and found one born in Liverpool!  - a bit young maybe as born in April 1789 but probably worth  checking out further.  I'll let you know if I find anything interesting.
warm wishes
Alison

[geniesjm]

Hi Alison

I have obtained a Death Certificate for Sarah Edwards.  She died on 7 April 1866 at 8 Cooper Street [Toxteth Park] aged 68 years.  She was the Widow of Samuel Edwards, Engine Driver, and cause of death was Bronchitis, senile decay certified.  The informant was Sarah Roberts, present at death of 8 Cooper Street, Toxteth Park.  Sarah was buried in Toxteth Park Cemetery on 10 April 1866.
There is also an entry for a Samuel Edwards in the Toxteth Park Cemetery index and I have applied for a Death Certificate in the same year, 1859, with the hope that it is correct.  I will let you know when I receive it from the GRO.

Best wishes
Sylvia