Author Topic: Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo/ Isabella Erskine  (Read 2447 times)

Offline jimmain

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Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo/ Isabella Erskine
« on: Monday 14 July 14 22:10 BST (UK) »
Mark Gray married Margaret Nimmo1870, Loan Muiravonside. What is interesting about him is that he had six illegitimate children with Isabella Erskine, the last one, Isabella Erskine Gray, born 1874, 4 years after his marriage to Margaret Nimmo. There are a number of documents that confirm these illegitimate births and this relationship.Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo had four children in Glasgow, before immigrating to Ontario Canada where they had five more children. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who might be able to explain this unusual situation.
Main, Mitchell; Stirlingshire
Drummond; Perth
Florence; Aberdeen

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo/ Isabella Erskine
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 15 July 14 12:46 BST (UK) »
Jim, without meaning to sound flip here  ::), other than an understanding and open minded wife in Margaret Nimmo (or a wife who had no choice other than putting up with the situation), not sure what circumstances there could be other than the obvious. Mark Gray must have been a busy man in general...15 children is enough for anyone for sure!

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo/ Isabella Erskine
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 15 July 14 12:49 BST (UK) »
Joking aside...is this connected to Isabella Erskine:

Trial papers relating to Isabella Erskine for the crime of concealment of pregnancy at Mossneuk, Polmont, Stirlingshire. Tried at High Court, Stirling - 9 Apr 1868

Isabella Erskine, daughter of William Erskine, labourer, Verdict: Guilty, Verdict Comments: Guilty in terms of own confession, Sentence: Imprisonment - 9 months. Note: Pannel to serve sentence in the general prison at Perth.

www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue

9 Months is an odd co-incidence for a prison term given the subject of the trial  :-\

Monica
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Offline Millmoor

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Re: Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo/ Isabella Erskine
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 15 July 14 13:07 BST (UK) »
Monica

There is an article in the Falkirk Herald 19 March 1868 "Suspected Child Murder at Blackbraes" referring to Isabella Erskine age 32 living with her father William Erskine at Mossneuck near Blackbraes had given birth to a child some days previously and suspicions were entertained of the infant having met with foul play. She did not know if the child was born dead or alive. She was apprehended and committed to prison pending further investigation. A post mortem contained medical opinion that the child had breathed after its birth. It is said that Erskine had no fewer than five illegitimate children, including the one referred to, four of whom are still living.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline Millmoor

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Re: Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo/ Isabella Erskine
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 15 July 14 13:17 BST (UK) »
And the Glasgow Herald has an article 14 March 1868. The childs body had been concealed in a bag at the foot of a bed. Isabella "has a wooden leg and seems to have been deeply sunk in degradation, as she has had four illegitimate children prior to this one".

Short article in Southern Reporter 19 March 1868. Her father is said to be a labourer. The charge was of concealment of pregnancy and child murder.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo/ Isabella Erskine
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 15 July 14 13:26 BST (UK) »
That certainly sound like the right Isabella Erskine from what Jim mentioned in his opening post  :-\ Thanks for that William.

Monica
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Offline jimmain

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Re: Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo/ Isabella Erskine
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 15 July 14 15:10 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for this information! A more bizarre story than I could have imagined. Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo immigrated to Canada after the birth of Nellie 1873. I wonder if the situation with Isabella had anything to do with that?
Main, Mitchell; Stirlingshire
Drummond; Perth
Florence; Aberdeen

Offline jimmain

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Re: More on Mark Gray/ Isabella Erskine
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 15 July 14 16:03 BST (UK) »
I thought I would add this documentation for the sake of completion:
Mark apparently had six children with Isabella Erskine; they were not married.
Isabella, born1834, Polmont, was the daughter of William Esrkine/ Isabella McIntyre.
Mark/ Isabella Erskine had the following children in Polmont: Arthur 1858-1935 (Mary Walker 1882); Christina 1861; James 1862 (Helen Wright 1885); Charlotte 1864; Christina 1869; Isabella Erskine Gray 1874 (Charles Miller 1892).
The children used either Gray or Erskine as a surname.
Arthur Gray marriage record: Married 30Dec 1883, Shieldhill Polmont. Arthur Gray 24, Mossend Shieldhill, coal miner, bachelor. Parents, Mark Gray, labourer (reputed father)/ Isabella Erskine, outdoor worker. Mary Walker 19, East Shieldhill Polmont, brickwork worker, spinster. Parents, Robert Walker, coal miner/ Elizabeth Thomson. Witnesses, James Erskine. Isabell Walker. 
Arthur Gray (Mary Walker) death record: Died 1Feb 1935, Learigg Shieldhill, coal miner, age 77. Spouse, Mary Walker. Parents, Mark Gray, coal miner (dec)/ Isabell Erskine, outdoor worker (dec). Died of cerebral hemorrhage, 7 days. Informant, Arthur Gray, son.
James Erskine marriage record: Married 31Dec 1885, Mossneuk Polmont. James Erskine 23, Polmont, coal miner, bachelor. Parents, father not noted/ Isabella Erskine, house keeper. Helen Wright 17, Muiravonside, dairymaid, spinster. Parents, George Wright, coal miner/ Margaret White. Witnesses, George Wright/ Catherine Gibson.
Isabella McIntyre Erskine birth record: Born 15June 1874, Mossneuk Polmont, illegitimate. Mother, Isabella Erskine, seamstress.
Note that Isabella was born 4 years after Mark had married Margaret Nimmo.
Isabella Erskine death record: Died 2Jan 1922, Mossneuk Shieldhill Polmont, single, age 79. Parents, William Erskine, coal miner (dec)/ Isabella McIntyre (dec). Died of chronic bronchitis, cardiac failure. Informant, John Erskine, grandson.
Main, Mitchell; Stirlingshire
Drummond; Perth
Florence; Aberdeen

Offline williamsglm

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Re: Mark Gray/ Margaret Nimmo/ Isabella Erskine
« Reply #8 on: Monday 11 November 19 11:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi i know this post is from 2014 but hopefully your still being notified of this message.

I have been researching Isabella Erskine and agree with some of the information that you have.  However I dont believe that all of Isabella's children are Mark Gray's.  Isabella's 2nd child Christina McBarth Erskine b 27/7/1860 has the middle name of McBarth which is the same as her 1st child Arthur Gray Erskine b 27/3/1857.  I believe the middle names are the father's surname.  Unfortunately Charlotte b 2/12/1861, James b 2/3/1862, the unnamed deceased baby girl and her final child Isabella do not have the fathers name as middle name.  I have looked at getting the court documents mentioned in a previous message however it will cost 45 pound.

Was there anything specific in your research that states Mark Gray is the father of any other of Isabella's other children?
Would love to hear from you.  Cheers Linda