John Jones of Jervais St. Dublin & Oldtown, Co. Kildare

[taramcdsmall]

The Oldtown Tithes

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?county=Kildare&parish=Naas&townland=Oldtown&search=Search

Tara

[kenneth cooke]

John Jones of Dublin & Oldtown, Co. Kildare Summary to date:
 
John Jones was born about 1740 to 1760. His daughter Lydia (1785-1854) married Eugene Sweny of Dublin in 1809. They were my 3 x gr. grandparents.
A Sweny pedigree from the London Genealogical Society states that Eugene Sweny of Camden St. Dublin mar. Lydia, daughter of John Jones of Jervais St. Dublin & Oldtown, Co. Kildare, in Sept. 1809. (J.Jones positively identified)
(The names Lydia and Sarah occur often in the Jones, Cooke & Sweny familes. One of them may have been John’s wife’s name) 
Two daughters of Eugene and Lydia Sweny were Lydia and Sarah. Their cousin was a Lydia Sarah Jones 1810-1880, who married Michael Cooke (no relation to me, so far) in 1843. If Lydia Sarah was a cousin of the Sweny girls, she must also have been a grand-daughter of John Jones of Kildare/Dublin.
Michael & Lydia Sarah Cooke had three daughters:
Sarah Alice, who married twice, to Lewis Rawson of Baltinglass, Wicklow in 1870, then in 1886 to Fredk. Fawcett. Daughters Lydia Barbara & Mary Rawson.
Margaret 1844, mar. William Ashley, of Baltinglass, dau Lydia.
Mary 1845-1924, not married. Mary Cooke is buried at Mt. Jerome with her ‘cousins’ Lydia (Sweny) Mosley and Sarah Sweny. (actually her mother’s cousins)

From 'Papers of the Earls of Wicklow' held by Nat.Library Ireland.MS38,579/11 Page 75 of 232.
"Two lives or twenty-one year lease of lands at [Ballyvoughan] and Bushfield, barony of Talbotstown, County Wicklow, by Robert, Lord Viscount Wicklow to John Jones, Oldtown, County Kildare. 3 Mar. 1792." (J.J. positively identified)
From Cantwells 1798 Claimants (claims for the destruction of property in the 1798 rebellion)
Name: John Jones, Residence: Oldtown, Kildare; Occupation: Farmer;   Loss Sustained at:  Residence;  Nature Of Loss:  House, Furniture, Corn, Car, Harness
Sum Claimed: £851 17s 7d   Sum Allowed:  £827 0s 10d  (J.J. positively identified)

Tithe Applotments 1825:
"Tolbatstown, Wicklow, Latter Estate and Lease Hold- Thomas Higgison & John Jones 12 acres, 26 1/3 perches." (J.J. not positively identified)

Now I wonder if there's a link to the Jones family of Wicklow. There were also Jones’ at Baltinglass, which is very close to Talbotstown, about 3-4 miles. John Jones took a lease there in 1792, but in 1798 he was still living in Kildare, and probably in 1809 when his daughter Lydia married E. Sweny. Did he set his son up on the farm in Wicklow ?

[Charlie J]

Hi Kenneth.
Have you confirmed that the Oldtown you are looking for is in Naas as there is an Oldtown about 5 Klm west of Baltinglass on the Wicklow Kildare border.
My primary research has been the Jones family of Baltinglass and to hinder research there are a number of John Jones from different generations in the area.

The Michael Cooke you refer to, Was he Protestant or Roman Catholic?

I may be able to help more but I don't want to take over your thread with irrevelant information.

[kenneth cooke]

Hi Charlie,
Thanks for your reply. The more info the better. I'm afraid it's inevitable that the subject will get more complicated before everything is resolved. The focus seems to be swinging from Kildare to Wicklow. Could Oldtown have been in Kildare before, and is now in Wicklow ?
I had not intended to bring this up for a while, but here goes:
Eugene married Lydia, dau of John Jones of Oldtown in 1809.
His grandfather, John Sweeny of Dublin had married a Mary, dau of John Jones of Ballynulta, or -multa or -multer, Co. Wicklow in 1747.
Is it possible that Eugene and Lydia were second cousins, their common great grandfather being J.J. of Wicklow ?
Ken
ps Michael Cooke married at St Peter's C of I.

[kenneth cooke]

Charlie,
I should also say that Eugene's first cousin was Abraham Jones Sweny, of Kilew ? House Co. Kildare & Park St. Dublin, born abt 1810. I'm sure the middle name refers to his grandmother, Mary Jones.
In the Index of Irish Wills- Abraham Jones of Coollattin, Co. Wicklow, probate granted 1810, and in 1764, Robert Jones, Ballynulta, Co. Wicklow, Farmer.
I wonder. Ken

[Charlie J]

Hi Kenneth

Here is a map of oldtown grid reference 52.9628039,-6.7572845 (shift the picture to the right to see Oldtown)


My earliest JJ was born in 1731, but the earliest record I have for him in 1769 with both a marriage record to Jane Barker of Dublin and land deed record in Hacketstown, Co Carlow. I can't say if these trees are linked but I think it may be worth some further research.

The following is Michael Cookes grave in Dunlavin. It's the large flat one in the centre of the picture.

There are at least 3 people buried in the grave but on the day I was there it was very hard to read.
Michael Cooke of Baltinglass. ? Cooke daughter who departed this life 21/1 in the 19th year of her age. ? ? who departed this life 10th January 1875. I will get back to this on a better day. There is a recent Cooke grave there too but out of respect I won't post a picture. Let me know if you have any interest in this.

[kenneth cooke]

Thanks  Charlie,
I can't find anything about the change of the Wicklow/Kildare border. Bits of other counties were incorporated into Wicklow, but not, it seems, from Kildare.
I have traced my Cookes from about 1750 in Manchester, UK, and the question of whether they were originally from Ireland is too big to tackle just now, so I can't say I'm really interested in Michaael Cooke, apart from the connection to Jones, Sweny etc.
The Robert Jones, farmer, of Ballynulta, Wicklow (probate 1764) seems to be connected, as that is where John Jones, father of Mary, who married John Sweeny 1747, lived. Robert could have been John's brother or father.
Thanks again for all your info. Maybe you'll come across a possible connection among all those Jones'. Please let me know if you think of anything else.
Ken

[Charlie J]

While going through some old notes I stumbled on the following which might be useful.
From the national library. http://www.nli.ie/manuscriptlist/..%5Cpdfs%5Cmss%20lists%5Cwicklow%20papers.pdf
MS 38,579/11
Two lives or twenty-one year lease of lands at [Ballyvoughan] and
Bushfield, barony of Talbotstown, County Wicklow, by Robert,
Lord Viscount Wicklow to John
Jones, Oldtown, county Kildare.
3 Mar. 1792
1 membrane
I don't have a link for this but again it may be of use.
The gentleman magazine (London England) 1805
In the obituary section.
Near Baltinglass, John Jones esq one of the sheriffs peers of Dublin, formerly an attorney of considerable eminence.

[kenneth cooke]

Thanks for that Charlie. It is really interesting, I'll have to have a good think about it.
The lease we had already, (see Reply #19) but the obituary is new.
John Sweny married in 1747 Mary, dau of John Jones of Ballynulta, Wicklow. John Sweny's brother Michael, 1713-1765 was a militiaman, sheriff, coroner, J.P., and alderman of the city of Dublin.
The John Jones who died in 1805 was too young to be Mary's father, but could have been her brother. In any case, he and Michael Sweny would have known about each other, as they both served the City of Dublin around the same time.
Ken