Author Topic: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.  (Read 56837 times)

Offline Viking666

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #36 on: Friday 08 August 14 21:53 BST (UK) »
 Your last post has turned up surprising information that Morgan Richards was a clergyman, so was his son Thomas. See the following, which is on page 2 of this topic, Bryn Issaf was, in 1798, occupied by a Rev. O. F. Owen, the Vicar of Llanilar.
 The jump from country clergyman to Pall Mall Westminster for Thomas in 1770 comes as no great shock. The lowly James of Bryn Issaf had a son who married one of the richest widows in Liverpool. His daughter Elizabeth married Robert Prichard of Llwydiarth Esgob and their daughter married William Laird, principal director of Laird Brothers Shipbuilders, of Birkenhead.
 Our investigations seemed to be leaning towards John and James being related to the Morgan Richards family, with a possibility that Thomas was their father. His marriage to Lucy of Pall Mall puts that out of court.
We don't know the name of Morgan Richards' father yet, do we? Even though Morgan is stated as being of Llandewi, he could easily have been born at Lledrod.
One of the biggest denominators in the saga of the multiple Reverends at Bryn Issaf is that it's almost certain that they were all taught at Edward Richard's School at Ystradmeurig ... their parents may have known him personally.
 The earliest mention, so far, is this indenture from 1722 but mentions a previous transaction from 1716. Even at this early date, Pen-y-bryn Merllyd is being traded by a Thomas Richards.

1722, Sept. 29
INDENTURE, being an assignment from Thomas Richards of Penybrin-merllyd, p. Lledrod, co. Card., gent., by the direction of Thomas Evan Rees of said p. Lledrod, yeoman, to Hugh Rice of the same p., clerk, of a mortgage for £53 (granted on 2 Oct. 1716 by the said Thomas Evan Rees and Elizabeth his wife, to the said Thomas Richards) and of a further charge of £17 on a tmt called Tythin-brin-issa, comprising the one-fourth part of an ancient tmt called Bryn-merllyd in said p. Lledrod, being formerly parcel of the possessions of the dissolved monastery of Strata Florida.  Memorandum (endorsed) that the principal and interest had been repaid to the said Hugh Rice on 29 Sept. 1740.
 We are back in the days when Edward Richard was born, 1714 and this can't be the same Thomas that Marries Lucy in 1770; the dates don't make sense.
  Anyway, that's food for thought. We need a circa DoB for Thomas, the son of Morgan Richards, and find out who the earlier Thomas was.
       Regards from Peter         
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.

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Offline despair

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #37 on: Friday 08 August 14 22:25 BST (UK) »
A couple of points
Thomas the son of Morgan is not a clergyman.It is Thomas Davies,his brother in law who is.
Morgan's father is David Richards,given latterly as of Llandewi Brefi as per the 1754 reference.

There are too many similar personal and place names to be certain that we are following a single strand or family in any given circumstance.I'm not sure what line of enquiry to take next at the moment.

Regards
Roger

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Offline Viking666

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #38 on: Friday 08 August 14 23:34 BST (UK) »
Yes, mixed up the Reverends, sorry.
  We do know that a Thomas, with his wife Jane, was living at Bryn Issaf vide the 1777 Indenture, Jan 17th. They must have been the parents of John and James. ( Rev. John was at Oxford then and James was 14). During all of the negotiations for Bryn Merllyd, I think that the names really don't have that much importance ... they are involved with property title etc. and don't reflect what was actually happening, "on the ground". However much the property was exchanged between parties, the names are those of the lesees and negotiators, not the occupants of the properties. When John and James were born, the property may have been in the name of someone else but as we can see from the 1777 indenture, Thomas and Jane were resident there. (Letitia was also named but was actually living at Llangwyryfon). We need to find out who this Thomas was. He was not the second son of Morgan Richards, as I stated in my last post ... who is this guy?
        Gone midnight again. Regards from Peter.
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.

Offline Viking666

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 09 August 14 08:26 BST (UK) »
   Another thought. I've noticed that, in the entries that we have concerning negotiations, that they always refer to parts of the property. One refers to one half of 3 parts and it may be that what we have here are multiple tenants of various parts of Bryn Issaf. From experience of other family in Anglesey, notably Tre'r Gof in the 1870's, various parts of their estate were regularly mortgaged off to various people in order to raise funds.
 We still have the, "on the ground " fact that, regardless of who owned which part, in 1833 it was in the Rev. John's power to leave the property to his second son, John, (1800-1849). When John died, as per the Rev's will, the property should have been transferred to his brother Michael of Parciau, but in John's 1850 will, there is no mention of Bryn Issa but there is a large sum of money deposited with Michael on John's behalf, showing interest of £21.
  So many parts would explain why so many people are involved over the years.
                                    Regards from Peter.
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.

Offline despair

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 09 August 14 13:55 BST (UK) »
Having re-read the will of David Richards,Llandewi Brefi,1756 he has three sons-Morgan(eldest),Thomas(second),David(youngest).
Perhaps it is this second son Thomas who is the husband of Jane,with the grandson Thomas(via Morgan) who marries Lucy Walters and,also perhaps David who marries Letitia Parry in 1737(and is the David of Ffos?).
Having allocated bequests to all and sundry the balance of the estate goes to the grandson Thomas.
Unfortunately I can't find any birth/baptisms/ages etc to help support this.

Regards
Roger

Offline Viking666

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 09 August 14 17:26 BST (UK) »
Just had a good read of that will. The only facts that we can use from it are that Morgan Richards is deceased and that David was the youngest son. We know that David of Ffos married in 1737, giving him a probable DoB Circa 1710-1715. His brother Thomas, (with sister Gwen between them), would have a Dob around 1710. This would have given him an age of 50 when the Rev. John was born in 1760 so I don't see him as the Thomas of Bryn Issaf. I agree with the Thomas, grandson, being the man for Lucy. One thing that worries me is that, amongst all of the 6 children, and quite a few properties, all are located in Llandewi Brefi and there is no mention of Lledrod. David was at Ffosybleiddiaid when the will was made, already married.
                                            regards, Peter
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.

Offline despair

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 09 August 14 17:34 BST (UK) »
Your analysis feels right,particularly the geographic aspect.I will go back and re-read the other wills that could contribute and see if I can develop an alternative.

Regards
Roger

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #43 on: Sunday 10 August 14 12:23 BST (UK) »
Getting down to basics by listing anything relating to Tythin Bryn Merllyd / Bryn Issaf.
1637 Sept 2 Grant to Evan David - Bryn Merllyd.
1638 Sept 21Grant to Rees David ap Oliver - Bryn Merllyd.
1658 Nov 24 Grant to Thomas Lewis - Tythin y bryn Issa and Ynys y Berwedd, (Ynys Perfedd).
1683 Apr 7. Details show Maurice and David Richard of Lledrod but no property details.
1694 Nov 8/9 Grant to David Richard - Tythin bryn Merllyd.
1697 Sept 20 David Richard - Tythin bryn Merllyd.
Next entry links David Senior to Ynys Perfedd, David Richard Junior, Thomas Richard of Caron, and Tythin y bryn Merllyd.
1719, Sept. 28
1760 Thomas and Jane Richards are residents at Bryn Issa, John and James are born there.
1765 Indent. Thomas and Jane Richards, plus Leticia Richards Widow at Bryn Issaf.
1798 Resident at Bryn Issaf/ Merllyd was Rev O.F. Owen.
1833 John Richards bequeaths Bryn Issa to his son, John Richards (1800-1844) Heneglwys, Mona.
 I get the feeling that Merllyd was an actual area that contained the 3 properties that relate to the Richard/s family. Bryn Issaf, Pen y bryn Issaf and Ynys Perfedd.
Further to my post of yesterday regarding multiple owners of land. (From the lady at Aberystwyth).

 A late 18th century map (NLW Crosswood Vol 2, 10) covering the farms of Ty-y-swydd, Ty-hen and Tynbwlch shows a landscape similar to that recorded by the tithe surveyors except for sub-divided strips in multiple ownership in one field.
   Perhaps the list above tells its own story. A bit more work and we're sure to crack the case!
                           Regards Peter.
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.

Offline despair

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #44 on: Sunday 10 August 14 16:50 BST (UK) »
These have been referenced before,but perhaps should be included in the list:

II.274
 1757, June 16
 INDENTURE, being a mortgage for £100 from David Richards of Foesybleidded, p. Lledrod, co. Card., gent., and Letitia his wife, to Edward Richards of
 p. Spytty Ystrad Meirick, co. Card., gent., of a tmt called Tythyn-y-brin- issa, containing one-fourth part of an ancient tmt called Bryn-merllyd in said p. Lledrod and gr. of Mevenydd, being formerly parcel of the possessions of the dissolved monastery of Strata Florida. Receipt, ( endorsed), dated 1 Aug. 1764 by Edward Richards acknowledging the repayment of the principal and interest by Thomas Richards.

II.183
1738, Nov. 9
 INDENTURE, being a lease for a year (so that a grant by release might be made) from Thomas Evan of p. Lledrod, co. Card., yeoman, and Elizabeth his wife, David Morgan of p. Ystrad Meyrick, co. Card., yeoman, and Catherine his wife, Margaret Evans of p. Lledrod, spinster, Anne Evans of p. Caron, co. Card., spinster (which said Elizabeth, Catherine, Margaret and Anne were the dauís and coheiresses of Thomas Evan Rees of said p. Caron, yeoman, dec., by Elizabeth his wife, also dec.) and Rev. Hugh Rice of p. Lledrod, clerk, to Thomas Richard of the same p., gent., of a tmt called Tythyn-y-bryn-issa, containing the one-fourth part of an ancient tmt called Bryn-merllyd in gr. Mevenydd and p. Lledrod, being formerly parcel of the possessions of the dissolved monastery of Strata Florida

II.166
1722, Sept. 29
 INDENTURE, being an assignment from Thomas Richards of Penybrin-merllyd, p. Lledrod, co. Card., gent., by the direction of Thomas Evan Rees of said p. Lledrod, yeoman, to Hugh Rice of the same p., clerk, of a mortgage for £53 ( granted on 2 Oct. 1716 by the said Thomas Evan Rees and Elizabeth his wife, to the said Thomas Richards) and of a further charge of £17 on a tmt called Tythin-brin-issa, comprising the one-fourth part of an ancient tmt called Bryn-merllyd in said p. Lledrod, being formerly parcel of the possessions of the dissolved monastery of Strata Florida. Memorandum ( endorsed) that the principal and interest had been repaid to the said Hugh Rice on 29 Sept. 1740.

Trying to make a single family line,supported by evidence of wills/marriages/births/dates is another matter.

Regards
Roger