Author Topic: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:  (Read 5344 times)

Offline osprey

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Re: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 23 August 14 18:53 BST (UK) »
only death registered at Crickhowell in the right period, no ages given on index at that time, so can't be sure it's the right person
Richard Evans march qtr 1864 Crickhowell vol 11b pg 107

Sorry, don't understand why you say children & ages for Elizabeth don't match. They do match for the census info & birth registrations in Wales.
 ???

Elizabeth in 1851 census
Gellygare HO107/2457 folio 188 pg 31
John Hereman head 62 iron miner b. Silworthy, Somerset
Mary wife 60 b. Llantwit Major, Glamorgan
John son 21 iron miner b. Gellygaer
Elizabeth dau 15 b. Merthyr

Baptism in Merthyr Parish Church 1 Nov 1835 for Elizabeth, daughter of John & Mary Hereman, John noted as miner and their abode Dowlais.

The enumerator did a good job of hiding them in the 1871 census 
Llangunider, Breconshire RG10/5584 folio 90 pg 17
Thomas Thembo head mar 28 coal miner b. Tenbury, Worcestershire
Elizabeth wife 35 b. Dowlais, Glamorgan
Mary Evans stepdau 15 b. Aberdare, Glamorgan
Jacob Evans stepson 12 b. Aberdare
Margaret Evans stepdau 10 b. Aberdare
Susannah stepdau 8 b. Llangunider
John Thembo son 5 b. Llangunider
Sarah J dau 2 b. Llangunider

There are later marriages for a Sarah J Bembo/Benbow, but bit late for the one born around 1869, and not to a Thomas Williams. One in 1916 to William H. Williams.

The cheapest option is to order certificates direct from the GRO & pay with a credit card
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
 
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

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Offline julefamily

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Re: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 23 August 14 23:38 BST (UK) »
Thank you:  I did not have the 1871 census under name of Thembo.
That mystery solved.  Also did not have the child name of Jacob Evans.  Also, I have an Isaac Evans and this census does not? both are listed for the birth year 1859:  Twins? maybe one passed?
or names not registered correctly.???  Jacob and Isaac both bibical names.

 
Do you have any suggestions of finding Thomas Williams marrying Helen Julia Bembow?

Also, any suggestions for finding how the Bembo's and Williams migrated to USA?
Thanking you very deeply for all your assistance.


Ireland:  Langan, Langham
Wales:  Williams, Jones, Evans, Bembo, Hill
Slovakia:  Hudack
Pennsylvania USA: Langan, Williams, Hill, Bembo
New York: USA: Fergueson, Lee, Dineen
Philliphines:  LeGarda
Scotland:  Lockhardt

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Offline jim1

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Re: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 24 August 14 10:51 BST (UK) »
Had to do some running around yesterday so playing catch up at the moment.
I'm getting the impression that Daniel & Isaac Williams are closer to Susannah other than just step-children. Benbow isn't a common name in Wales & even less so in Glamorgan & having a Benbow connection earlier seems too much of a coincidence.
I think the name Helen Julia is wrong. This information was given at Daniel's death in 1952 by someone else who probably wasn't even born when Helen died.
Although there are Daniel's & Isaac's in Glamorgan who could be the one's from the birth certs. I can't see any other way past the problem other than getting them & finding out.
They say they were born in the Rhondda June 1883 & Oct. 1885 resp. but we don't know how accurate that is but it's all you have to go on.

Quote
any suggestions for finding how the Bembo's and Williams migrated to USA?

Susannah says she immigrated 1885-7 & probably came with the Benbows.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline iolaus

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Re: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 24 August 14 11:24 BST (UK) »
Aberdare isn't in the Rhondda valleys (there are two Rhondda Fawr and Rhondda Fach) - it's in the Cynon Valley (pretty close less than 5 miles if you go over Maerdy mountain)

Offline osprey

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Re: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 24 August 14 12:48 BST (UK) »
the family were in the Rhondda for the 1881 census though, before the supposed birth of the two sons.

I think the 1871 is a bit of a muddle, surname wrong - it does have Thembo on the original. I suspect Jacob is Isaac & the enumerator was having problems with handwriting.

I can find no trace of a Thomas Williams marrying a Helen Julia Benbow, or of a Helen Julia Benbow or variant.

At that time, there was no record kept of people leaving the UK, that only started in the 1890s. So looking at the US end is the only option.

Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline jim1

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Re: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 24 August 14 14:00 BST (UK) »
The OP has a comprehensive collection of data from the USA so I don't think there's much else to gain from looking for more.
The clincher is going to be getting the right birth certs. for Daniel & Isaac but that's easier said than done.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Online Deirdre784

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Re: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 24 August 14 14:15 BST (UK) »
...within that 10 week period his 1st. wife died & he met & married Susannah.
I've researched 100's of families & never come across this scenario before.

A few weeks longer than 10 weeks but my 3rd great grandmother was buried on 2 Feb 1845 and her husband married again on 12 May 1845 :o.  And only one 12 year old daughter to look after. 

CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline julefamily

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Re: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 24 August 14 18:21 BST (UK) »
Jim1: Glad to hear from you.  I believe I will try to purchase birth cert for Isaac and Daniel (Pontypridd) and see what that shows me.  I am also believing that the mother of Isaac and Daniel is not Helen Benbow.  If I can't learn anything from the birth certs, then I am back up against that brick wall.  Perhaps It is not meant that I find out who my father's ancestors are.

As far as the connection to the Bembo's.  I also came to the same conclusion, it did not seem to be a popular name like Williams, jones, etc.  And I also wondered where/why the connection Susannah and Helen came to be.  At first I thought maybe they were the children of Thomas Williams and Sarah Bembo and Susannah cared for them after her sister died.  However, I know that there is a Sarah J Bembow and Thomas Williams in Scranton that had many children none which were named Isaac or Daniel.???

I will send for birth certs and see what happens.  As well as follow up with Helen Williams buried in Wilkes Barre Cemetery.

Thank you for your help , you have been a good angel.
 8)
Ireland:  Langan, Langham
Wales:  Williams, Jones, Evans, Bembo, Hill
Slovakia:  Hudack
Pennsylvania USA: Langan, Williams, Hill, Bembo
New York: USA: Fergueson, Lee, Dineen
Philliphines:  LeGarda
Scotland:  Lockhardt

Offline jim1

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Re: Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 24 August 14 19:46 BST (UK) »
Then I'll rest my wings until you get back to us with some news.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/