Williams Family Rhonda Valley Wales: Father: Thomas b:abt 1850: Sons: Daniel b:

[julefamily]

Williams Family; Rhonda Wales:Thomas Williams b: abt 1850: died Pennsylvania in 1887 he was a coal miner: 2 marriages: Helen Julia Bendbow (Bembo or Benbow) and 2nd wife Susannah Evans b: Wales abt 1864; Thomas had 2 sons with first wife: Daniel B: June 1883 Rhonda Valley;  D: Clark Summit, Pennsylvania United States 1952
son: Issac Williams b: 1886 October, died Pennsylvania USA 1917.
Issac had 3 children with Alice Maud Hill (Hutchins) children born in Mayfield (Scranton) Pa. Clarence, Olive and Robert Williams.
Have no information on Helen Julia Bendbow:
Susannah Evans parents were Richard and Elizabeth Evans:  Elizabeth Evans married a Thomas Bembo when Richard died: Susannah Evans Williams remaried Thomas Harris in Scranton Pa. 1900
Greatly appreciate any information on Thomas Williams and Helen Julia Bendbow. thank you

[jim1]

Hello & Welcome
I don't suppose you have any parents names do you?
I can see just 1 Helen Benbow in Wales b. 1855 Newtown Montg'shire.
There's appears to be a marriage for her in 1876 Newtown but not to a Thomas Williams.

jim
Edit:
Not her as she's still in the UK in 1901.

[julefamily]

Yes, thank you for that information.  I do not believe it is the same person.  I have looked for a few years and have not been able to come up with the correct Benbow.
I did run across a few thomas Williams marrying a lady by name of Sarah Benbow (I believe Sarah was the daughter of Elizabeth and Thomas Bembo.)
My grandfather's death certificate states his mother's name was Helen.  and ... family lore said Helen died in Pennsylvania somewhere.

I do appreciate your looking into the matter for me.  If you do see something that may be interesting, please let me know.  Thank you again and have a great day.

[jim1]

Do you have Daniel's birth cert. confirming Helen's maiden name ?

[julefamily]

I have Daniel (g uncle) and ggrandfather (Issac) death certificates.  Daniel's death cert. states mother unknown: father's nickname "Sheenk Williams"  Daniel  (Danny) died April 18, 1953: Birth June 27, 1883: died in West Side Hospital in Scranton, Pa USA.  Lived in Taylor Pa.  Worked as coal miner in Pennsylvania at the Glen Alden Coal Co. as a laborer.  Birth: Rhonda Valley, Wales.
Raised by step-mother: Susannah Evans Williams Harris in Scranton, Pa.  I have Susannah Harris will stating Daniel was her son.  (year 1942).  Also WWI (year 1917) registration stating Daniel was living with his mother Susannah Harris.

Daniel and Issac were brothers:

Issac's death cert states:
 mother: Helen Julia Bembow
father:  Thos Williams
Birth: (conflicts some reports state Wales, some state Pennsylvania)
birth: October 24, 1886
death:  October 4, 1917 Scranton, Pa.
Burial: Washburn Cemetery (Welsh cemetery in Scranton Pa USA)

I grew up only knowing my uncle Danny Williams and grandmother (Issac's wife) Alice Maud Hill (Hutchins) (Williams).

so my information is limited, except for info I have "dug" up.  My father was a coal miner in Pennsylvania.
thank you for your interest.  Unfortunately, I do not have a great deal of info.  However, I do believe there may be a connection with a Thomas Williams in Tylorstown, Rhonda, Wales.  which connects to a son Daniel  T (born in Celynphia - Rhonda Wales) immigrated to Pennsylvania July 6, 1908. on SS Haverford.

all info I have.  Thank you again

[jim1]

I'm having a problem with the timeline.
Thomas b.1850 Wales
Daniel b. 1883 Wales.
Isaac b. 1886 ma. Helen Benbow.
Thomas d. 1887.
Daniel immigrates 1908.
What you appear to say is that Helen was alive in  Oct.1886 & between Helen's death & his own in 1887 Thomas married Susannah Evans.
So Thomas would have to have had a son, emigrate, have another son, lose his wife, remarry & die all in the space of 4 years.
Not impossible of course but seems a tight squeeze.
There are 10 Daniel Williams births June-Sept. 1883 Glam.
2 have the wrong middle names, 7 don't have a middle name & that leaves just 1;
Daniel Thomas Williams:
Sep 1883  Pontypridd 11a 419.
Pontypridd was the Reg. District for Rhondda.
Might not be him as there's a Daniel Thomas Williams b. 1884 living in Rhondda.
The problem is that these are very common Welsh names & trying to find the right Daniel could be expensive.
There's just 1 Isaac Williams born Glam. Sept. - Dec. 1886:
Dec 1886
Williams  Isaac Cadwaladr    Pontypridd  11a 477
If this is him then the timeline is even tighter.

[julefamily]

hello jim1
Yes, the timeline does seem very tight.  However I know that (according to my deceased mother) that Thomas tried to raise the boys by himself but could not, therefore, he remarried.  I would believe that the Isaac born in Cadwaladr, Pontybridd could be the correct Isaac as the dates do match (Oct 24, 1886) registered Sept - Dec 1886.
I cannot find any records here in the US for Thomas between 1886 and 1887.  I have found the records for Susannah (I know it is her, by address, the will and mention of Daniel).  She also buried Isaac from her home in 1917 and I have newspaper announcement of death and burial.  Also, my father , Clarence, (his father was Isaac) said his father died from typhoid fever when he was about 8 years old and said his father Isaac was raised by Susannah Harris.  I also have the marriage license of Susannah Williams to Thomas Harris which states her first husband died Jan 5, 1887.  But does not state if he died in the USA or Wales.

The only conclusion I can come to is:  Helen passed shortly after the birth of Isaac in Wales.  Thomas remarried Susannah,, Then Thomas passed.  Susannah may have brought both boys to USA by herself and remarried in Scranton, PA USA.  This does make sense to me: since I could not find burial or death information on Thomas in Pennsylvania with the death date of Jan 5  1887.
Susan's  mother and step-father lived in Scranton-

susannah mother:  Elizabeth ? Evans Harris
Susannah father:  Richard Evans
Susannah step-father:  Thomas Bembo (Bendbow - Bembow - bembow)

This is why my brick - wall has been so difficult.   You are an angle for getting me this far along.  I actually never thought that Thomas may have died in Wales and she immigrated with the 2 boys.

You are certainly earning your angel wings.  I cannot tell you how great it is commuting thoughts to someone and getting a response.  My heart is very grateful.  thank you
 Is there a web site to check   deaths in Wales.?  Or nearby cemeteries?

[julefamily]

Hello jim1

the other thought I just had was: perhaps Susannah left for America without the children and they joined her later .

Which then of course Daniel and Isaac would be raised by family members

There is a Isaac Williams in the 1901 census:  Living in Tylorstown.  He is 9 years old.
I know there was a Thomas Williams living in Tylorstown.  A Daniel  T Williams born in
Celynphic Rhonnda (his father Thomas lived in Tylorstown in 1908).
Unfortunately, neither Isaac or Daniel had middle names as far as I know, but they could have dropped them.

I guess I will just have to keep on plugging along until that brick wall falls apart.  Have a good day/evening

[jim1]

Cadwaledr was Isaac's middle name not where he was born.
Doing the maths you say Isaac was born Oct. 24 1886 & Thomas died Jan. 5 1887 & within that 10 week period his 1st. wife died & he met & married Susannah.
I've researched 100's of families & never come across this scenario before.
What I can't find is Helen Julia Benbow, a death for Helen William after Oct. 1886, a marriage between Thomas Williams & Susannah Evans after Oct. 1886 & before Jan. 1887 or a death for Thomas Williams aged abt. 37 in the 1st. quarter of 1887 in Glamorgan where I would expect them to be.
Something doesn't add up.