Author Topic: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902  (Read 4152 times)

Offline heywood

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Re: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 21 August 14 19:06 BST (UK) »
He may have used Albert- people do add other names.
There is a record- brief- of his confirmation, where he took the name Joseph as a confirmation name. If you are not familiar with that ceremony, it has no legal significance, just the adoption of a saint's name to confirm the faith.
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Offline jimrob

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Re: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902
« Reply #28 on: Friday 22 August 14 21:27 BST (UK) »
Is it appropriate to continue in this Knighton topic to begin to look for anything on Charlotte Knighton's father, Patrick White may I ask ?

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Offline heywood

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Re: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902
« Reply #29 on: Friday 22 August 14 22:36 BST (UK) »
Hello Jim,
Yes you can carry on in this thread or start a new one. If you start a new one, it would be best to link to here for the background.

At the moment, I think, we only have Charlotte's father as Patrick based on the marriage of Mary Ellen White to William Carpenter and her father us named as Patrick.
You would really need confirmation of Charlotte's father from her marriage to James.
I can see a Mary with a father Patrick but not Charlotte.
I'll check again.

Regards
Heywood
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Offline jimrob

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Re: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 24 August 14 05:28 BST (UK) »
From the foregoing entries to this thread, I have been able to construct a plausible scenario of the events and how the individuals mentioned relate to James Albert Knighton and I wonder whether it is permissible to post that here on this forum ? Thanks Jim R.

Offline heywood

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Re: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 24 August 14 08:56 BST (UK) »
Jim,

As I said, certificates are really the documentation which is generally relied upon to 'prove/disprove' our plausible scenarios.  :) Please do post what you have constructed.
I am unsure re Charlotte - finding her with a sister Mary E and a father Patrick is proving difficult at the moment.

Regards
Heywood
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Offline jimrob

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Re: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 24 August 14 14:18 BST (UK) »
Thankyou Heywood -- I guess the best way to clear up the questions regarding Charlotte and her father would be to be able to contact a related family member who might know - not liJim R.kely but theoretically possible.    Jim R.

Offline jimrob

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Re: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 24 August 14 14:30 BST (UK) »
James Albert Knighton - an interpretation of details related to my otherwise "unknown" father
Born Liverpool December 4, 1901, died of peritonitis November 7, 1929 in Southampton, aged 27.

In looking for James Albert Knighton, I have discovered that his immediate forebears, on his father's side, are from Nottingham and on his mother's side, the White family, are from Liverpool . . . and perhaps earlier from Ireland.
James Albert seems to have grown up in a Roman Catholoic family and we have reference to his confirmation, a ceremony, I believe, that affirms the person's faith and is one of a series of functions of initiation into the Catholic church, taking place in the early teens in many instances.
The parents of James Albert
There is a record of the marriage of James Albert's father, also named James Knighton, to Charlotte White. We can henceforth refer to that James as James Knighton Senior to avoid confusion. At the time of the marriage, James Senior was aged about 20 and Charlotte White aged about 19, the wedding took place at St Aidans Church Liverpool in 1891. Other records indicate that James Knighton Sr. was born in Nottingham August 9, 1869 and  Charlotte was born about 1870, or 1871, in Liverpool. James Knighton Sr, in Nottingham, appears to have been in the royal navy or possibly the naval reserve, from aged about 15 according to an1884 naval entry and it would seem that after leaving that naval branch, still young, he moved to Liverpool to work as a seaman in the merchant navy.
We have no details at this time of James Knighton Sr's siblings if any. Charlotte White appears to have had just one sister, Mary Ellen White who was married to William Carpenter in 1886. Mary Ellen Carpenter was the godmother to each of the Knighton children.
James Albert's siblings, the childreen of James Sr. And Charlotte
James Albert had a brother, Arthur, and at least two sisters, Eliza and Ellen. The 1911 census indicates that James Albert, aged 9,  Arthur, aged 13 and Ellen, aged 7, were living in Liverpool with their aunt, Mary Carpenter, nee White, their mother's sister. The eldest sibling, Eliza, is shown on the 1911 census as living in Nottingham, perhaps with paternal relatives there, she was 16 at the time.
Other than his name on the 1911 census we have no additional information on Arthur and there is little more on Eliza and Ellen. But both of those female names appear to be “family'' names – names of other family members the names of parents or grandparents we can surmise. For instance, the name of the eldest daughter of both Charlotte and her sister Mary, was Eliza – perhaps named after their mother. And Ellen was the second name of her aunt Mary, Charlotte's sister.
There is a reference to an Ellen Knighton being married in Liverpool to William T. Smith in 1924 -- and two children born 1926 and 1929 may have been theirs. If they are still alive, I guess they could be my cousins.
Eliza Knighton was married and became Mrs. Shaw in Nottigham in 1915
The Knighton children were baptised in the Catholic Church and their baptism records identified to date list five children. Not listed there is Arthur Knighton who was born about 1898 according to the 1911 census.
From another source there is an entry referring to an infant named William James Knighton aged 7 months being buried 19th June 1893 at Ford Cemetary --  He apparently was the first born and the first to die. Baptism list follows

At St Alphonsus :
William Knighton born 10.11.1892 Baptism 28.11.1892
Elisabeth Knighton born 18.6.1894 Baptism  25.6.1894

At Sacred Heart
John Albert Knighton born 25.11.1899 Baptism 3.12.1899

At St Michael
James Knighton born 4.12.1901 Baptism 18.12.1901

And at Sacred Heart
Ellen Knighton b 10.11.1903 Baptism  20.11.1903

Where were the parents in 1911?
Since the parents, James and Charlotte Knighton, are absent from the 1911 census records, and the children were living with their aunt, the question arises as to whether they were still alive at that time, especially Charlotte. While it is possible that James, the father, being a seaman, may have been away at sea at census time it is more difficult to account for the absence of Charlotte, then aout 40 years of age if alive.
Grandparents
The Knightons of Nottingham, grandfather James Knighton,  and the Whites of Liverpool, grandfather Patrick White.
So there is still much to fill in . . .
Note: I would especially like to find out about Patrick White, his relationships and origins, if he is indeed James Albert's grandfather.
Criticism and comments welcomed. Thank you, Jim R.

Offline heywood

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Re: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 24 August 14 14:44 BST (UK) »
No criticisms Jim. :)

The way forward and even then it may not help much I accept, would be to purchase the marriage certificate of James and Charlotte. It should confirm her father's name and occupation and perhaps give an address and witnesses to help trace her pre- marriage.

There is a published family tree mentioning the family. However, there is no information to help- we have more here.
It only mentions two children - Arthur and 'Lily' who seems to be Eliza. There are details of Lily's marriage and family.

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Offline jimrob

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Re: Knighton from Liverpool born 1902
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 24 August 14 14:51 BST (UK) »
Yes Heywood, welcome advice, I do intend to purchase any  official records available on Charlotte and James and also baptism certificates for James Albert if available --- I'm not sure from where to acquire those just now. Jim R.