Author Topic: Thomas Pugh born Bryngwn 1762 Married three times?  (Read 3921 times)

Offline Llanfihangel

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Thomas Pugh born Bryngwn 1762 Married three times?
« on: Monday 01 September 14 21:38 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I have been doing some research on Thomas Pugh, my earliest "hard" records are a marriage bond for a marriage to Margaret Jones at LLangynog, Breconshire 1794, and two Census records:  In 1841 for him living at Cwmnantgwyn, Llangynog, and in 1851 for him at Croesgwyn, Llandewi'r Cwm, Breconshire. The 1841 Census shows that he was not born in Breconshire, and the 1851 Census shows him born in Bryngwyn Radnorshire. He was married to a much younger Elizabeth in the 1841 and 1851 Census records.

I have Parish records of a Margaret Pugh of Cymnantgwyn, Llangynog buried Maesmynis 1814, which is shown as Thomas Pugh's residence in the 1841 Census.

Thomas and Margaret had several children, including Anne, Margaret. Elizabeth, Elinor, Lucretia, all baptized in Llangynog. Lucretia was buried in Maesmynis with Margaret in 1814.

There is a record of a Thomas Pugh marrying Elizabeth Powell at Llandewi'r Cwm in 1830. she was 31 years old and Thomas was 68 at that time according to the 1851 Census. I am fairly sure this was the same Thomas Pugh who married Margaret Jones.

But there is another Parish Record of a marriage between Thomas Pugh and Mary Pugh in 1822 also in LLandewi'r Cwm.... And a burial of Mary Pugh age 30 of Tynywain, LLandewi'r Cwm in 1829.

I am interested in any information regarding this last marriage, i.e. possibly the second marriage of Thomas Pugh. Is it the same Thomas Pugh who married Margaret and later Elizabeth?

Or is it another Thomas Pugh, possibly related to the Samuel Pugh who married Margaret Worthing at Llandewi'r Cwm in 1825?

I am asking all this because I am trying to figure out if Thomas Pugh born 1762 in Bryngwyn Radnorshire had a son Thomas Pugh baptised 1800, Llandewi'r Cwm.

I know this is complicated, but I would be glad of any data regarding this family...

Thanks

Llanfi  :) :) :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

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Offline Llanfihangel

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Re: Thomas Pugh born Bryngwn 1762 Married three times?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 02 September 14 00:37 BST (UK) »
The last line in my previous Post should have read:

I am asking all this because I am trying to figure out if Thomas Pugh born 1762 in Bryngwyn Radnorshire had a son SAMUEL Pugh baptised 1800, Llandewi'r Cwm.

He may have also had a son Thomas Pugh, but Samuel Pugh is the one I am currently researching!
 Thanks

Llanfi  :-\ :-\ :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

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Offline alltcafan

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Re: Thomas Pugh born Bryngwn 1762 Married three times?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 04 September 14 00:28 BST (UK) »
Dear Llanfi

Baptism at Llanddewi'r Cwm for a Samuel Pugh son of Thomas Pugh took place on 10th June 1800.  (no address given)

Kind regards
Alltcafan  :)
EVANS/ JONES / JAMES / REES - Llangeler, Penboyr, Llanfihangel ar Arth, Burry Port & South Wales
STEPHENS - Llangeler, Penboyr & Neath
DAVIES / REES / JONES - Kilrhedyn, Newcastle Emlyn

Offline Llanfihangel

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Re: Thomas Pugh born Bryngwn 1762 Married three times?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 04 September 14 02:12 BST (UK) »
I think that's the right Samuel Pugh, but the record doesn't show who his mother was.
The Library of Wales has a reference to a marriage bond in 1794.
PUGH, Thomas, farmer, Llangynog, BRE.  1794, Oct 11.  At   Ll.  Margaret Jones.  B.  57/154
Could this be the Thomas who baptised Samuel in 1800?
I am sure that Samuel Pugh married Martha Worthing at Llandewi'r Cwm 1825, and I have traced them and their children up to 1901. They baptized their children in neighbouring Parishes: Maesmynis. Llanynis, Llandewi'r Cwm, and later on in Llanfihangel Cwmdu where they resided in the 1851 Census. In both the 1851 and 1871 Census's, Samuel put his birthplace as Llangynog Breconshire.
I can't find a record of the actual wedding between Thomas Pugh and Margaret Jones, only the marriage bond.
Samuel  and Martha had two sons and five daughters They had Margaret 1830 while they were living at Penheol, Llanynis, his occupation labourer. They baptized Anne 1835 at Maesmynis living at Penson-dy-? his occupation labourer.  Sarah 1838 at Maesmynis living in Parsonage House, his occupation Farmer. Mary was recorded as age 3, and Jane age 6 living at  Efail Isaf House, St Michael Cwmdu, Crickhowell, Breconshire, Wales (1851 Census), his occupation Labourer.

Their sons were Thomas was born 1826 in Llandewi’r cwm  Richard was baptised 1833 Maesmynis and buried 1838 Maesmynis. They baptized another Richard 1841 in Llanynis

According to the Welsh naming custom:
    The first son was named after the father's father       
    The second son was named after the mother's father
    The third son was named after the father   
    The fourth son was named after the father's eldest brother:    
    The first daughter after the mother's mother       
    The second daughter after the father's mother    
    The third daughter after the mother                
    The fourth daughter after the mother's eldest sister         
    
If this pattern would result in a duplication of names — i.e., both grandfathers had the same name — then they would skip to the next one on the list.

There is a record of Martha Worthing's baptism at Rhyader in 1806. Her parents were Thos. Worthing and Sarah Jenkins.

Anyone think that Samuels Parents were Thomas and Margaret, according to the Marriage Bond?

Cheers,
Llanfi
 :) :) ???



Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline Llanfihangel

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Re: Thomas Pugh born Bryngwn 1762 Married three times?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 04 September 14 08:01 BST (UK) »
Here are the records for Samuel and Martha's children in Breconshire:

The first Richard buried 1838 in Maesmynis was 5 years old, and there is a record for his baptism in Maesmynis in 1833.

So Thomas was the first born son and Richard the second.

Margaret the first born daughter, then Anne, then Sarah, then Jane, and finally Mary

(This is to help with the naming custom riddle)

Anyone think that Thomas was Samuel's father, and Richard was Samuel's eldest Brother?

The daughters all have "family" names but hey do not fit the customary order, which would have been: Sarah, Margaret, Martha, and ??

This seems to be a brick wall!!

Cheers,

Llanfi :) :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline Llanfihangel

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Re: Thomas Pugh born Bryngwn 1762 Married three times?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 06 September 14 19:53 BST (UK) »
Yes. Samuel had two brothers, Thomas (b. 1795 and Richard 1797) Thomas was born in Llangynog and Richard in Merthyr Cynog. His father was Thomas Pugh and his mother was Margaret Jones.

The latter Thomas had a brother John, all the above from Census records.

Thomas's brother Richard was baptized in Merthyr Cynog, April 5 1797 by Thomas and Margaret. (Bishop's Transcript)

So that crumbles my brick wall for the time being...

Thanks to you all

Llanfi  :) :) :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline Paparico

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Re: Thomas Pugh born Bryngwn 1762 Married three times?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 03 April 15 19:24 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the information on Welsh naming tradition which, one hopes, will help me to identify the father of an illegitimate son!  As for Thomas Pugh of Bryngwyn, one of the Greenway girls of Bryngwyn married a Thomas Pugh in Bryngwyn around that time, but I can not provide the details as most of my tree disappeared from ancestry.com and ancestry.com claim they can not recover it.  However, I am confident they will happily sell that information to others . . . .
Aloha!
Rico