Scots leaving for South Africa

[WeeJM]

Thanks Monica!  Well, took a look at actual document for George Bishop's baptism in Dingwall, Scotland.   The question was in what on earth were they doing there while the regiment had moved to St Helena a couple of years previously?   The answer is he was there as Recruiting Sergeant for the 91st.  Maybe indicates he was presentable and persuasive?  Unfortunately there was no additional useful info.

[vangasser]

Dear  WeeJM
This so exciting 😊 I so appreciate your good news. I was a little confused when I browsed to quickly as I read the name George Bishop. I had to re-read in order to make sense of what you actually wrote. Then, my heart gave a jump from excitement as it made so much more sense when I read George’s brother being one of the siblings of James, as well as to solidify that they were from Dingwell, Scotland. How marvelous that you found that information. You have rekindled my urgency with those who are the progenitors of our South African – Scotland Bishop family. So, as you mentioned that Catherine (Shanon) is the mother, but we do not have the name of the father? I will see if I can find the father’s name in the Fort Beaufort records under baptisms records. Do we possibly know which church they were in? It would seem that several of the Bishops here in South Africa were Methodists.
WeeJM, again I am so delighted with your good news. Thank you very much. Please tell your sweet wife a great big “Hello” from me. Please take care of yourselves during the COVID-19 events. Blessings, Ed,

[vangasser]

Hello WeeJM and others, I just had a thought. There was a 1820 British Settler(to south Africa) who was a William Karse BISHOP. He married a certain Ann(s) Timm(s). After extended research, I could not find a direct connection with this Bishop family. They came from England, and not Scotland. Just a thought... Thank you, Ed(vangasser).

[iwccc]

Hi WeeJM,  thanks for a little more information on the Bishop Family.  Every little bit counts!
I have already printed my information but I can add this information in.  Will let the relatives in South Africa know of the new information.  Thanks again.

[vangasser]

WeeJM, iwccc, Monica, Monitor, and others, Thank you for your generous support. It is much appreciated. Ed- vangasser.

[WeeJM]

Well - scotlandspeople records have been useful!  It's very clear the John Bishop born to William Bishop and Helen Maxwell in 1809 is not our one since there's a death record showing he died aged 10 weeks.   Same parish and father, a chimney sweep, in both baptism and death records.   Rather unfortunate since I don't have more than a guess as to his actual parents!

Firstly his age : told the army (in 1928 and 1852 - consistent!) he was 20 in 1829 hence the 1809 birth year.    However the 1871 Census Record which is clearly his indicates 1812 as does his apparent death record.  I have no good idea why he'd lie to the recruiting people - doesn't seem there was much of a minimum age requirement - but I'm very inclined to think 1812 is right.   Perhaps he thought he'd be an initially perceived as a bit more senior than a 17 year old?

My 1812 assertion is supported by there not appearing to be any 1809 baptised alternatives.  I've discarded any 1814 baptisees - can't see a 15yo claiming to be 20!?!?  Re 1812 Johns - it's not son of John B & Jane Henderson's as asserted by you, Monica, above.  All I'm left with is son of George Bishop & Hellen Linton, born 26 Jan 1812 at Portabello, baptised Edinburgh St James Place Relief on  16 Feb 1812.   (They had another son, George, same place in 1817.)  This, however, is a purely name and place on a single document based - notoriously unreliable!

But wait, there's more : there's a baptism record on 4 Mar 1832 at Oldham, Lancashire of a Christiana daughter of Christiana and one John Bishop "soldier in the 91st Regm of Foot".   https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-4LVL-Q?i=397  Can't be anyone other than "our John"!   So, now we have :
 - Christiana b 1832 in Lancashire mother "Christiana",
 - George Manson b 1837 at Dingwall, Scotland mother "Catherine Shanon",
 - William b 1839 d 1840 at Jamestown, St Helena mother "Catherine",
 - James McKay b Oct 1841 at St Helena, bap Dec 1841 at Cape Town mother "Catherine",
 - Elizabeth Anna b 1844 at Fort Beaufort, Eastern Cape mother "Christiana" (remember her?), and,
 - Living in 1871 at Burton-Bradstock, Dorset with "Ann(e?)".
Bigamist?  Philanderer?  Unlucky widower? Husband of lady using different names at different times?

Have to say old John is giving me the proverbial pain in the posterior!

[WeeJM]

By the way, vangasser, do you have all the info you need on James McKay Bishop and his 10 children etc?   I've got some but Trevor Venables from UK seems to have a lot more.

[vangasser]

Hi all, Bishop Famil Scotland/South Africa
So far since last time, I have found (with the help of several of you kind folks) that John Bishop is the father of John Bishop, John Bishop is the father of James McKay Bishop, who is the father of George James Bishop, the father of my mother, Sarah Louisa Bishop.

I have also found a William Bishop, who is the father of John Bishop. William is married to Helen Maxwell. Her father was Alexander MADWELL; Not sure where the MAXWELL and MADWELL connect...possibly spelling issue.                      William and Helen were married on 1 Oct 1799 at Canongate, (Edinburgh) Midlothian, Scotland
It seems that John Bishop has two brothers David and Alexander, as well as two sisters, Helen and Margaret.
Hopefully this will bring us closer to the next line(s) upward.
I am still sorting this out, but am so excited that we now have one more Bishop father and also his wife Helen's father (Maxwell).
An other information would be much appreciated, please. 
Until next time, vangasser.

[vangasser]

Hi WeeJM,
               Thank you for our good information and suggestions.                       Is it possible that it is not John Bishop that died a few weeks after birth, but rather one of the other sons?
I am certain that the surname MAXWELL is correct and not MADWELL, referring to Helen Maxwell, wife of William BISHOP.

Just a thought...
Thank you,
vangasser.