Thomas Lisle in Australia

[Neil Todd]

I wonder if you have the right Thomas LISLE. There is a 1850 marriage for a Thomas LISLE to an Ellen LIVINGSTON in Armidale NSW and a 1859 death of a Thomas LISLE in Armidale NSW.?

There could also be misinformation with that name, as you could spell it more than one way. IE LYLE.

Neil

MODIFIED.
Could be this fellow above.
Thomas Lisle, one of 280 convicts transported on the Asia, 20 July 1837.

[Jool]

Hi Hatter, not answering your query but I'm posting this in case you don't already have it.
Burial of Thomas Lisle, wife Ann and son Thomas in the same plot at Kew Cemetery, Boroondara.  Just type Lisle into the search box.

http://www.kewcemetery.com.au/FindGrave.aspx

[sparrett]

Missing person advertisement in 1857 for Thomas LISLE butcher

Heading to Melbourne (Port Phillip) from Sydney
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/7137783?

Sue

Same man?

Wivenhoe, I've taken your advice and obtained the birth certificate for the daughter Anne Elizabeth Lisle who is born 28 October 1858 in Boroondara, Victoria. Father is shown as Thomas Lisle a Butcher aged abt. 27

[cando]

There is no marriage for Thomas LISLE to Ann STAFFORD on the Victorian indexes.

Births
LISLE Annie Elizabeth
Father Thomas  Mother Ann STAFFORD
At Kew  1858  Reg#14886

LISLE Emily
Father Thomas  Mother Ann STAFFORD
At Bulleen  1861  Reg#609

LISLE Alice
Father Thomas  Mother Ann STAFFORD
At Bulleen  1864  Reg#9203

LISLE Minnie
Father Thomas  Mother Ann STAFFORD
At Doncaster  1865  Reg#2035     Died aged 1 year  1866  Reg#2472
 
LISLE Thomas Christopher
Father Thomas  Mother Ann STAFFORD
At Doncaster  1870  Reg#22689

LISLE Helen Charlotte
Father Thomas  Mother Ann STAFFORD
At Doncaster  1875  Reg#15339

and Thomas's death for which you have the certificate.

LISLE Thomas
Father William
At Melbourne South 
1881 50 years  Reg#2099

Possibly Thomas's wife

LISLE Ann  29 years
Hospital record
28 Jun 1862
Melbourne, Victoria
Discharged 11 Jul 1862
Patients in Melbourne Hospital 1856-1905

I would suggest that after reading Thomas's death certificate on a public tree that it is possible the Police Constable at the inquest into his death, has confused Ann's surname STAFFORD with the county Staffordshire in England.  Information on death certificates is unreliable and especially if given by someone who is not family.  On the issue column under children's names...deceased 1 particulars unknown.  If Ann had been giving the information she would have known the name of the deceased child....so who gave Thomas's and Ann's details to the PC?

Thomas injured his foot and died from the infection in hospital.  The Police Constable attending the inquest was the informant on the death certificate. 

Inquest Index
LISLE Thomas
50 years Melbourne  1881  Ref#166
Cause Pyaemia

It would be interesting to see the parental details on the other birth certificates especially the date of their marriage .

I wonder what marriage info is on this cert - possibly not accurate anyway.  Strange that family wouldn't know her maiden name.
Death
LISLE Ann
Parents unknown
At Doncaster 80 years 1913 Reg#9100

Assisted Immigrant Arrivals
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=24

STAFFORD Anne 24 years arrived 3 Nov 1854 on the APOLLINE  Book 11 Page 105 - another resource shows her place of birth as Fermanagh; Religion Church of England and she could only read not write.

STAFFORD Ann  25 years arrived 2 Sep 1857 on the HORNET Book 13 Page 28 - another resource shows her place of birth as Middlesex; Religion Church of England and she could read and write.  Disposal List shows she was employed by Mr WILSON of Studley.  That places her in the area of her first birth, Annie Elizabeth, at Kew in Oct 1858.

There are digitised probate files for Thomas and Annie on
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54

Cando

[wivenhoe]

From the birth certificate 1858...who is the informant...Ann or Thomas?

What does it have for "previous issue"


If there is a marriage that did not happen, you would have to suspect that one or both of them is still married to someone else.

Ann, at 26, is older than the average for first child at that time, so possibly has older child?.

There is  Will for Thomas LISLE d. 26 Feb 1881 Doncaster.

Also Annie LISLE d. 24 Sep 1913 Doncaster, which names the five living children...Minnie died as child.

[sparrett]

   Strange that family wouldn't know her maiden name.
Death
LISLE Ann
Parents unknown
At Doncaster 80 years 1913 Reg#9100

 
Cando

They had remembered it again by the time of the death of two of her children

Both these show Thomas LISLE and Ann (or Annie) STAFFORD as parents

Thomas Christopher LISLE in 1946 #4436 at S. Hills aged 75
Alice KNEE (nee LISLE) in 1947 #20360  at Doncaster aged 84

 Sue

[cando]

I gave the link to the digitised probate files for Thomas and Annie in reply#12

Nothing there that helps.  Thomas named his wife as beneficiary and Annie lists her living children with everything to be sold etc and estate divided.

I find it strange that a birth certificate in the same year as a marriage would not show the full date of the marriage not simply the year.  As I mentioned in my reply, it would interesting to see the date of marriage on the other children's birth certificates.  I doubt they married.  Ann STAFFORD who arrived in 1857 was to be employed in the same area as the birth of their first child.

I have traced all the children and electoral roll listings for the family but didn't post in case this isn't the correct Thomas LISLE.

Cando

[cando]

Ann, at 26, is older than the average for first child at that time, so possibly has older child?.

Wivenhoe

Not if this is her arrival as an assisted immigrant

STAFFORD Ann  25 years arrived 2 Sep 1857 on the HORNET Book 13 Page 28 - another resource shows her place of birth as Middlesex; Religion Church of England and she could read and write.  Disposal List shows she was employed by Mr WILSON of Studley.  That places her in the area of her first birth, Annie Elizabeth, at Kew in Oct 1858.

Cando

[Hatter99]

Firstly thank you all for the quick response to my query.

Taking your advice Neil, I was looking for the death of Thomas and Ancestry came up with the the death in Australia in 1881 with his father as William, seemed to tie in with the information I have as he disappears from England after the 1851 census. I added the death cert to my tree in Ancestry with the proviso that I wasn't sure if it was the correct Thomas as couldn't find a marriage or a passenger list for him

Cando, Thank you for all the effort in trying to track Thomas down, Annie's birth certificate in 1858 shows 1 child living who I assume would be Annie and the birth is registered by Ann the mother. The list of children is great , thanks.

The link to the newspaper from Sparrett shows that a Thomas Lisle, butcher left Sydney for Port Phillip in March 1856 with the intention of returning to England but hadn't been heard of since, he is shown with a home address of Easington Lane, County Durham. The same occupation as on the Annie birth certificate. Hopefully just a coincidence or I could be going down the wrong path 

Think I need to try and find a marriage to try and confirm if I've found the Thomas I'm looking for although the Lisle clan do seem to have a habit of missing marriages!

Once again thanks to everyone for the information.