In search of boating Ralphs

[Mary Jane Tape]

I've been trying to research my grandfather's family and I can get back to the marriage of William Ralph and Jane Wagstaff in 1865.  The Wagstaffs and Currys/Corrys are reasonably easy to trace but William's father was John, a boatman.  I can find Rosanna Ralph who married Charles Lloyd and Emma Ralph who married Thomas Wright - a joint wedding in 1857.  There is also a Thomas Ralph who married Letitia ??
In each case the father is shown as John Ralph, boatman.

William and Thomas lived next door to each other in Aston Street, just off Toll End Road both saying, in 1871, they were born in Oxford.  In 1881 Thomas said he was born in Tipton.

Their ages vary from census to census, but only by a year or so, making it's difficult to get a handle on exactly when William was born.

To make matters worse there appears to be another Ralph family.  John (again) married to Elizabeth.  They too had sons William and Thomas but there was 8 years difference in their ages.

 Can anyone shed any light on William Ralph's family please.  I feel as though I'm going round in circles and I can't seem to find births or deaths for anyone!!

[Pheno]

For clarity there is this 1851 census which includes a William Ralph of the right age born Tipton and living Tipton in 1851.
Class: HO107; Piece: 2029; Folio: 184; Page: 30


 John Ralph  47
 Elizabeth Ralph  45
 Joseph Ralph  21
 Lucy Ralph  19
 Elizabeth Ralph  16
 John Ralph  15
 Ann Ralph  11
 William Ralph  8
 Samuel Ralph  5
 Mary Ralph  4
 Thomas Ralph  10 Mo
 Ann Morgan  14     All born Tipton Staffordshire except father John which I can't make out.
Interestingly, although father John is listed as a Labourer son John aged 15 is listed as boatman.

Pheno

[Pheno]

This is the same family in 1841 although John has been mistranscribed as Jane.  He is however, described as a boatman.
Class: HO107; Piece: 982; Book: 3; Civil Parish: Tipton; County: Staffordshire; Enumeration District: 6; Folio: 25; Page: 2;

 Jane Ralph  35  (should be John)
 Henry Ralph  14
 Joseph Ralph  12
 John Ralph Jur  4
 Elizabeth Ralph  35
 Elizabeth Ralph Jur  6
 Lucy Ralph  9
 Ann Ralph  1
Ann Morgan 65

All born in county (Staffs) except Henry.

Pheno

 


 



 

[Mary Jane Tape]

Where are Emma and Rosanna born born 1835 and 1836 (or thereabouts)  they should appear in both censuses but there seems no record of them except The Genealogist does give a record of them both marrying in 1857.  This is what I find so frustrating.  Could they belong to another family of Ralphs, again with father John?

[Pheno]

Name: John Jabez Ralph 
 Event Type:  marriage 
 Event Date: 02 Jul 1822 
 Residence Place: Manchester, Lancaster 
 Gender: Male 
 Spouse's Name: Jane Buckley Wagstaff 
This seems to be the marriage record for John & Jane's marriage and would probably explain why Henry Ralph says not born in Staffordshire as he was probably born Lancashire where the marriage took place although I can't immediately see a baptism.

However, there is this record:

Name: Henry Ralph 
 Event Type: Military Service 
 Event Year Range: 1845-1854 
 Event Place: United Kingdom 
 Birthplace: LANCASHIRE 
 Birth Year: 1825
Hope some of this helps,

Pheno

[Mary Jane Tape]

Oh dear!  This is getting confusing.
I have William, my great great grandfather marrying Jane Wagstaff (born 1844) in Tipton.  They married in 1865.

His father WAS John, but how can I connect Jane Buckley Wagstaff as William's mother?

Another anomally is that Emma Ralph, William's sister who married Thomas Wright, spent the 1861 census night with her grandfather who was born in Oxford.

I can't quite see the connection between the Oxford/Tipton Ralphs and the Mancurians.

[Pheno]

Finally for tonight there is this baptism:

Name: John Jabez Ralph 
 Gender: Male 
 Christening Date: 16 Sep 1795 
 Christening Place: INDEPENDENT,STONE,STAFFORD,ENGLAND 
 Birth Date: 11 Aug 1795 
 Father's Name: John Ralph 
 Mother's Name: Frances 


Have you got certificates confirming the 1865 Ralph/Wagstaff marriage?

Pheno

[DavidJP]

Hi Mary Jane Tape,

A very warm welcome to Rootschat!

Firstly I don't think that the marriage of John Jabez Ralph to Jane Buckley Wagstaffe is right! This chap on the marriage record was a School Master! This is a link to the marriage here: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12419-95276-66?cc=1788853&wc=M6FC-KWP:143838901,150025401,150401001

I think that if what Pheno has found in the census returns is right then John Ralph's wife was Elizabeth & not Jane.

Am I right that you are saying that John Ralph was born in Oxford? Or am I misunderstanding as to which grandfather that is?

Kind regards

David

[DavidJP]

Hi again,

I think that the 1841 census stating that Henry Ralph was born out of county was a red herring as I have just found the following baptism.

Henry Ralph to John & Elizabeth Ralph baptised 29th April 1827 at St Martin's, Tipton, Staffordshire. A link to the entry here: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXF5-J7P

I am not sure that these Ralph's are the right ones.

William Ralph if I understand correctly, has siblings Thomas, Rosanna & Emma, Is this correct?

Kind regards

David

Edited to add brother's name.