Harriet Whiteley from Sheffield

[jamcat95]

Hi all
I have a wee problem here.  I would like to know if these two Harriets are one and the same or have I bought the wrong certificate.

I have a birth certificate of a William Henry Fisher born in Sheffield in 1859. His parents were William Fisher and Harriet Whiteley.

I recently bought a marriage certificate of a William Fisher and Harriet Whitby from 1856 in Sheffield thinking that Whitby was a misspelling. Harriet’s father on the certificate is John Whitby, a steel roller. A witness was Ellen Whiteley.

Now, I can only find a Harriott Whiteley in the Censuses with parents Samuel and Martha in 1851 in Worsbrough in Yorkshire. She is also in the 1841 census with a John Maude. According  to the censuses she was born in Sheffield. Also in the 1861 census an Elizabeth Whiteley was a servant in the household. In 1871 in Sheffield Martha Whiteley is on the same page as Harriet Fisher.

The problem is that the fathers' names do not match.
Both William Fishers were bricklayers.

Ian

[AMBLY]

Hi Ian

I was just trying to find William Henry FISHER in 1861, and his parents? Do you have the reference?

Trying to ascertain when and where Harriet was born...

Cheers
AMBLY

[jamcat95]

Thanks Ambly,

Wm Fisher
Harriott Fisher

Civil Parish: Hunshelf

RG 9/3455/95/ p 39

Ian

[jamcat95]

Trying to ascertain when and where Harriet was born...

Yeah... Sorry,
She was born in 1836.

Ian

[AMBLY]

Hi Ian

For ref :
1861: Well Hill, Hunshelf, Penistone
RG 9 - Piece 3455 /Folio 95/ Pg39
Head: Wm FISHER 24, b Staffordshire
Wife: Harriot FISHER 25, b Sheffield
Son: Wm Henry FISHER 2, b Sheffield
Dau: Mary Ann FISHER  8mths, b Hunshelf
Servant: Elizabeth WHITELEY 12, b Masbro,
<blank line>
Lodger: Wm TAYLOR 26, Spring Knife Cutter, b Sheffield
Wife: Ellen TAYLOR 22,  b Sheffield Park, Yks
Dau: Ann Elizabeth TAYLOR 3, b Sheffield Park, Yks
Dau: Clara Ellen TAYLOR 5mths, b Sheffield Park, Yks
[ The Taylor's are on Household Schedule, 218. The FISHERs are on 217]

1871:   17 Chancel Street, Sheffield St John
RG10 - Piece 4688/Folio48/ Pg 25
Head: William FISHER 33, Bricklayer, b Lichfield Staffs
Wife: Harriet FISHER 36,
Son: William FISHER 12
Dau: Mary Ann FISHER 10
Son: Johnathan FISHER 4
All born Sheffield except Wiilam Snr.

Next down at Nr 19:
John WALKER 29 and his wife Martha, 39, b Sheffield

Next but one down (after the FISHERs) at Nr 21:
Head: Martha WHITELY 56, Married, b Sheffield
Sons Joseph 30 and Henry 17, b Sheffield

Below: this appears to be Martha Whiteley in  1861 and 1851 - it looks to me as if the Servant in the FISHER Household in 1861 is Martha's daughter? And very possibly, Martha's daughter Ellen (12 in 1851) is the witness off that 1856 marriage?
 
In 1861:  Chancel Street
RG 9 / Piece 3491 / Folio 76 / Pg25
Head: John HAWKSBY 44, Widower, Furnace man
Son: Walter HAWKSBY 15, Labourer
Dau: Eliz'th HAWKSBY 11
Son: John HAWKSBY 10
Housekeeper: Martha WHITELY 46,  widow
Housekeeper's son: James WHITELY 15, Apprentice,
Housekeeper's son: Henry WHITELY 7,

In 1851: Twiggs Yard, Masbro, (Kimberworth, Rotherham District)
HO107 / Piece 2344 / Folio 105 / Pg6
Head: Chas WHITLEY 26, Bar Roller Ir, b Masbro
Wife: Martha WHITELY 34, b Sheffield
Dau: Mary Ann WHITELY 14, b Sheffield
Dau: Ellen WHITLEY 12, b Sheffield
SOn: Thos WHITLEY 8, b Sheffield
Son: James WHITLEY 5, b Sheffield
Dau: Eliz'th WHITLEY 2, b Masbro
Son: Wm WHITLEY 2mth, b Masbro

Which hasn't identified Harriet but ,    

On the Marriage Cert that you purchased, what was the bride's address and the other witness name?

I think Martha's  (inferred) daughter Ellen WHITELEY married William TAYLOR , Dec Qtr 1857 Sheffield (The other groom on the same marriage page  is John MANGLE  who looks to be with his wife Ann in 1861, ie the other bride on the page Ann SALT). And I think William & Ellen are the lodgers who are with the FISHERs in 1861.

Martha may hold the key - by ascertaining her maiden name, perhaps via the birth of her youngest child William?  It looks to me like Charles WHITELEY may not be the father of Martha's older children - and if Harriet is one of her children, she (Harriet) may not be a WHITELEY by birth?

Cheers
AMBLY

[jamcat95]

Hi Ambly
Thank you for your hard work. I realised after reading your reply this morning that I wasn't detailed enough in my initial question with all the references to all the censuses I found. Sorry about that.

This seems to be a difficult one...

I can add the addresses on the wedding cert:
William FISHER: Johnson Street.
Harriet WHITBY: Stanley Street.

The other witness: Samuel BENNETT.

On the 1841 census a Harriet Whiteley is living with a John MAUDE in Halifax, Yorkshire:
HO107/1299/ 6 / 7 p 6

I now have some leads to follow. I will try to find Martha's maiden name somehow. Thank you.


Ian

[jamcat95]

In 1849 a Martha ROGERS married a Samuel WHITELEY in Ecclesfield.

In the 1851 census there are Mary and Eliza Rodgers in the household with Samuel and Martha:
ref HO107/ Piece: 2333/ Folio 259 Page: 25

Could this be her first married name?

Ian

[jamcat95]

I have now ordered William Whiteley's birth certificate.

Thanks again.
Ian

[jamcat95]

I have now received the certificate.
Martha Whiteley formerly Wag.

Ian