William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW

[Kannk0262]

thanks so much!
I'll research those properties.

[Rick Smith]

I Know that it has been a long time since this thread has been active, but it seems to relate, so I am hopeful that I might be able to draw on the wisdom that is obviously here.

For many years I have been trying to locate the parents of William Henry Smith (1864-1912) married to Frances Ellen Davis (1871 - 1961), daughter of William Davis and Martha Orme. They were married by Thomas Druitt (CofE), supposedly in Cooma, though it may have been that Thomas Druitt was located in Cooma (according to BDM certificate) and the marriage was conducted by him elsewhere. The parents of William Smith were not on the BDM certificate. I have contacted the Diocesan offices (Canberra/Goulburn) archivist, and she was unable to find any record of the marriage in the Cooma marriage register.

I am now at a dead end entirely. His birth place is recorded on his children's birth certificates as Castlemaine. But I can find no record. Even help from the historical society there was unable to locate anything.

Their movements seem very similar to the movements of the Davises. So I am wondering if his family might have moved to the Queanbeyan area to labour on the railway.

Arthur Davis records William's fathers name as being William Henry Smith - Labourer, on Williams death certificate. But that is the only reference to parentage that I have been able to find anywhere.

Might anyone have come across anything in their research? Might someone have some insight into where I might be able to get information that might break my deadlock? I have been stuck at this hurdle for some time. And seeing as he is my Great grandfather, it is not as far back as I would like to go.

Kind regards, Richard Smith

[majm]

Just thought I would update here in case anyone has any further tips.  I've heard back from an historian who very kindly (and much appreciated by me) went to the National Library and looked up the marriage details in the Parish register and this what she found:

I checked the parish registers of the Anglican Cnhurch Diocese of Canberra and Goulburn, 1839-1921, at the NLA today and found the marriage record for Davis-Holmes on 1 February 1869. Unfortunately, no parents’ names were provided. It is interesting that there were four marriage entries on the page, two of which gave the names of parents and two did not. The two that didn’t were for marriages conducted at the School House, Collector on the same day (1 February 1869).

I have some handwritten marriage documents for other marriages so I think I need to try and get a copy of these.  Would the State Library help me with these, does anyone know?

Welcome to the best online forum for help eith family history.

1869 NSW C of E ... perhaps the clergy was on a circuit ... from the above quote it seems the marriage ceremony was at Collector. 

Some thoughts re William and a search for his parentage ...

  What info has been 'gleaned' from careful reading of his childrens' birth certs ... particularly when he was the informant ... where born/age ... occupation

  have you sought access to the 'family sheets' for the C of E clergyman ... sometimes these are full of info (clergy"s cheat sheets... similar to those available to view NO CHARGE via RChats NSW resources page .... Christ Church Cathedral Newcastle ... flickr images....

  have you looked for marriage announcement via Trove digitised newspapers .... sometimes the announcement appears several months after the actual ceremony.

  C of E clergy were expected by Church law to maintain at least two registers and to store them separately from each other in fireproof safety.  I wonder which register was photographed in the 1980s and where is the 'Other' one ...  

JM

[judb]

This is the marriage as recorded on the NSW BMD index.

5798/1887, registered at Cooma
William H SMITH  Frances E DAVIS

BMD records only show where the registration took place which may not be the actual location of the event, rather it's the location of the registry office. I have seen a death registration done in Bega while the person actually died in North Sydney.

Monaro Pioneers site shows only the year, 1887 and the location as Cooma for the marriage of William  and Frances, so no further information there.  However William is recorded on that site as William Henry Reynold (with no 's') SMITH, b 24 October, 1865 at Daylesford, Victoria.

http://www.monaropioneers.com/TNG/getperson.php?personID=I373261&tree=MP
This site has quite a lot of information about the family.  I think you have to register to access but it's free.  Information always needs to be checked as some of it is submitted although it has good references to show where the information has been found.

If this is correct then this would be his birth entry on Victorian BMD
1865 #21649
William Henry Re SMITH
Parents: George, Eliza (Reynolds)
Place of birth: DAYL

You can download an image of the registry entry which would give informartion about his parents, their marriage etc.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

Judith

[majm]

Agh  thanks Judith .... 1887 agh ...  well CofE two registers comments hold good ..... as 1887 still in that dispute era.  Some CofE marriages needed up to 5 registers to obtain all the info for the 1912-1915  reconciliations attempt.  Funding and loss of clerks to AIF (including to Base Records) ceased that effort with very few rural registers of any denomination  reconciled.

I am only accessing RChat via my e-reader at present,  so cannot provide live links but when I am back home I will go through some 19th century NSW electoral rolls.

To bring a wry smile to everyone reading this thread I share: 

Yesterday I was speaking with a family friend who was very concerned.  Her daughter is a school teacher in the NSW primary school system.  This teacher had been given a 'soft warning' by a colleague for MIS-INFORMING a parent. 

Read my words carefully.  The teacher had explained that NSW is the abbreviation for New South Wales.  The parent claims their local state member of the NSW parliament said it stands for
Newcastle
Sydney
Woolongong

The teacher explained to colleague but colleague is certain that NSW is for those three cities too. 

21st century ... so I said :  tell teacher to ask Google ... and guess what ....

New South Wales is still the answer.

Sorry for diversion but wow ...

JM

[judb]

Marriage of probable parents of William Henry SMITH

Victoria 1853 #3104
Elizabeth REYNOLDS George SMITH
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

There is a public on-line tree with a picture of George SMITH, says he was born 1826, Warwickshire, England; died 17 August, 1919 at Underbool, Victoria.  Elizabeth (nee REYNOLDS) was born in Cornwall, emigrated to Victoria 1849 and died in Horsham 1906.  The marriage place is given as Horsham. 
Please note, information from public trees should be verified!

Death notice for George SMITH d 17 August 1919 at Underbool, 'in his 96th year', mentions son William Henry.

Obit for Eliza, died 9 June, 1906 at Horsham
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/72821218

Another mention of her death
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/72821211

Family "Thank You" notice for Eliza
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4701994

Sale of Eliza's house by her estate
trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/72934963
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/72934797
TROVE has a number of advertisements re the sale of heer house and goods.

Eliza's will is digitised, but there is no mention of William Henry.  Eliza's obituary cites 13 living children but only 2 daughters and one son are mentioned in the will.
https://www.prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates

Judith

[Rick Smith]

Thank you for your replies. Very kind.

Frances is recorded as being born at Willaroo, although she apparently recounted that she was born at Captains Flat. So it does seem odd that she would be married at Cooma. So, yes, I agree that Rev Druitt must have been on a circuit. I just don't know how to access the register, even the duplicate one (other than having contacting the Diocesan office, which proved fruitless).

All the children's birth certificates record William's place of birth as Castlemaine.

Finally, I did pursue the William Henry Reynolds for some time. Though it became apparent that he married, lived and died in Vic and was a different person.

I did join the Manaro Pioneers, but could not really find anything related to William's parents on that site. I note in the information about William Davis that he worked for the railways. I had a theory that maybe the family moved from Vic to work on the railway too, but how would I find out whether or not this might be the case?

Quite frustrating being named Smith, they are everywhere!!

[Billyblue]

Rick, back in the 1800s, you could probably find notice of railway employees' movements in the relevant State Gazette.  Many of these are on CD, these days.

Also, some FHS produce indexes of this type of information.  Might be worth googling 'railways employees' and then doing some cherry picking

Dawn M

[Rick Smith]

Chasing railway employees now. Thank you.