Author Topic: Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)  (Read 3356 times)

Offline Jennyo

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Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)
« on: Monday 13 October 14 21:39 BST (UK) »
I was, until I married, a Hebblethwaite.  I know that the Hebblethwaite family came from Halifax presumably to work in the Kidderminster carpet trade.  My Grandfather was Harry Hebblethwaite (1883-1960) who married Elizabeth Hope.  His father was Henry Hebblethwaite (1859-?) who married first Elizabeth Whewell and then her sister Esther when Elizabeth died.

Henry's father was John Hebblethwaite (1834 - ?) an Earthenware dealer who was married to Emma Rogers and I now know that his father was also an Earthenware dealer and called Joseph.

Up to this point, all of them were born in Kidderminster, Worcestershire but I can not find Joseph or who John's mother is.  John and Emma were married in 1856 and the address on the marriage certificate is given as Kidderminster but of course this need not mean that Joseph was living here at the time.  I haven't been able to definitely identify a birth certificate for John either.

I think I have the family living in Bridgnorth in 1841 and some of the children are baptised in Kidderminster BUT despite having children on each side of Johns age, he is not included in the family on that census and the two children around that time are girls so doesn't look like adopted a different/middle name.  He would of been about 5 or 6 at the time.  However it is Joseph and Sarah.  I can't find a record of their marriage but would expect it to have been circa 1825/6

Can anyone help?  Thanks in advance

Hebblethwaite, Burbridge, Boucher, Whewell, Hope, Ormerod, Richards

Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)
« Reply #1 on: Monday 13 October 14 22:36 BST (UK) »
Hullo and welcome to Rootschat :D

I have a quick search for your family in Kidderminster in 1841 and the only Joseph there is aged 5 , possibly not accurate, but his father is not John. Are you sure of the parentage? The rest of the Josephs even close to 1834 are in West Riding of Yorkshire?

Neil
Grewl,Nickerseens,flombastion,Everheads

Offline Jennyo

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Re: Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)
« Reply #2 on: Monday 13 October 14 22:55 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your prompt reply Neil.

I was surprised to find it was Joseph.  I have the marriage certificates for each of them up to and including John and Emma Rogers which confirms Johns father to be Joseph.

I know that there was a Joseph working at Southwells Carpet works in Bridgnorth from 1832 to 1849 and that would tally with the Joseph and Sarah I just found in Bridgnorth.  They have children baptised in Kidderminster which tally with the names and ages of the children on the 1841 census but there is no John, unless of course they had so many children they simply forgot their 5 year old!?!?  But then on John and Emma marriage certificate it says Joseph is an Earthenware dealer not a carpet weaver.  Not 100% they are the same family
Hebblethwaite, Burbridge, Boucher, Whewell, Hope, Ormerod, Richards

Offline jim1

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Re: Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 14 October 14 11:48 BST (UK) »
Can you give us the 1841 census ref. no. it starts with HO107.
OK found them.
This family seems to drop off the face of the earth after 1841.Maybe they emigrated.
I wonder if he's made up a father's name & is this one:
John Beckwith Hebblethwaite
ch: 25 August 1834 St. George's, Kidderminster
mother: Sarah.
We see quite often illegitimate children being given the father's surname as a middle name.
There's also this:
Sarah Hablethwaite
chr: 25 December 1814 WESLEYAN,KIDDERMINSTER
father: John Hablethwaite
mother: Sarah

Edit:
Possibly another child to the same Sarah:
Sarah Ann Hebblethwaite
chr: 2 September 1845 St. Marys, Kidderminster
mother: Sarah Hebblethwaite

1851:
HO107; Piece: 2038; Folio: 223; Page: 59
1881:
RG11; Piece: 2901; Folio: 138; Page: 32
Living next door to her daughter.
 

 
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline Jennyo

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Re: Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 14 October 14 12:32 BST (UK) »
Can you give us the 1841 census ref. no. it starts with HO107.
OK found them.
This family seems to drop off the face of the earth after 1841.Maybe they emigrated.
I wonder if he's made up a father's name & is this one:
John Beckwith Hebblethwaite
ch: 25 August 1834 St. George's, Kidderminster
mother: Sarah.
We see quite often illegitimate children being given the father's surname as a middle name.

I have emailed the archivist at St Georges this morning, she is away on holiday so there will be a delay before I get a reply.  I think there is every possibility that he is John Beckwith Hebblethwaite and there is a link to the name as we know that John born in the late 1700's in Halifax and arrived in Kidderminster same time frame, married Sarah Beckwith in 1799 in Kidderminster.  They had a son called John who was baptised in the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in 1819 and I suspect that Joseph may have been another son although I can't find any record to that effect at the moment.

I thought Hebblethwaite in this area wouldn't be a problem as it is an unusual name for this area - how wrong was I
Hebblethwaite, Burbridge, Boucher, Whewell, Hope, Ormerod, Richards

Offline jim1

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Re: Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 14 October 14 12:45 BST (UK) »
Edited last post:
Edit:
Possibly another child to the same Sarah:
Sarah Ann Hebblethwaite
chr: 2 September 1845 St. Marys, Kidderminster
mother: Sarah Hebblethwaite

Quote
1851:
HO107; Piece: 2038; Folio: 223; Page: 59
1881:
RG11; Piece: 2901; Folio: 138; Page: 32
Living next door to her daughter.
Same family with John in 1841 Bridgnorth:
John Hebblethwait  60 Dyer
Sarah Hebblethwait  55
Mary Hebblethwait  25
Jabez Hebblethwait  15
John Hebblethwait  5
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Jennyo

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Re: Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 14 October 14 12:50 BST (UK) »
Edited last post:
Edit:
Possibly another child to the same Sarah:
Sarah Ann Hebblethwaite
chr: 2 September 1845 St. Marys, Kidderminster
mother: Sarah Hebblethwaite

Quote
1851:
HO107; Piece: 2038; Folio: 223; Page: 59
1881:
RG11; Piece: 2901; Folio: 138; Page: 32
Living next door to her daughter.
Same family with John in 1841 Bridgnorth:
John Hebblethwait  60 Dyer
Sarah Hebblethwait  55
Mary Hebblethwait  25
Jabez Hebblethwait  15
John Hebblethwait  5

Thank you - will look at that one in Bridgenorth.  Can Joseph and John be interchangeable?
Hebblethwaite, Burbridge, Boucher, Whewell, Hope, Ormerod, Richards

Offline jim1

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Re: Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 14 October 14 12:54 BST (UK) »
Not really.
John died 1845 aged 68.
Other burials:
Burial Date
3 Apr 1814 John HEBBLETHWAITE 1+ Worcestershire Kidderminster, St Mary
17 Dec 1829 Ann HEBBLETHWAITE 30 Worcestershire Kidderminster, St George
11 Jun 1831 Sarah HEBBLETHWAITE 18m Worcestershire Kidderminster, St George
18 Jun 1837 Christopher HEBBLETHWAITE 6 Worcestershire Kidderminster, St George
1 Nov 1840 Christopher HEBBLETHWAITE 2 Worcestershire Kidderminster, St George
4 Mar 1842 Alfred HEBBLETHWAITE 2 Worcestershire Kidderminster, St George
17 Mar 1845 John HEBBLETHWAITE 68 Worcestershire Kidderminster, St George
21 Jan 1847 Louisa HEBBLETHWAITE 6m Worcestershire Kidderminster, St George
6 Nov 1847 Mary Ann HEBBLETHWAITE 19 Worcestershire Kidderminster, St George
3 Dec 1847 Hannah HEBBLETHWAITE 51 Worcestershire Kidderminster, St John
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline jim1

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Re: Joseph Hebblethwaite, father of John (born. Kidderminster 1834)
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 14 October 14 15:29 BST (UK) »
Looking at John & Sarah in 1841 with g/son John aged 5 I deduced they married around 1800 in Leeds as that's where I found a couple of their possible children based on the Kidderminster PR's & found this marriage:
13 February 1799 Saint Peter,Leeds
John Hebblethwaite
spouse: Sarah Beckwith
From previous post:
Quote
John Beckwith Hebblethwaite
ch: 25 August 1834 St. George's, Kidderminster
mother: Sarah.

I'm beginning to get a handle on this family now.
Next door to John & Sarah in 1841 Bridgnorth is a Joel & Maria Webb.He married Maria Hebblethwaite 1834 Kidderminster.
These looks like the children of John & Sarah:
Christopher/1800/Leeds
Possibly 3 more born in same Church to same father:
Robert/1802/Engraver living in London/m. Elizabeth Connor 1829
Ann/1804/no info.
Isabella/1807/no info.

Mary/1808/Kidderminster/no info.
Maria/1810/do/Married Joel Webb
John/1812/do/died 1814 (see above burials)
Sarah/1814/do/mother of John Beckwith Hebblethwaite
John/1816/do/no info.
Moses/1817/do/no info.
Jonathan/1819/do (Worsted dyer & Innkeeper of the Foster's Arms Inn Bridgnorth)
m. Mary Small 1842.

Foster's Arms Inn
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/