Author Topic: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC  (Read 3146 times)

Offline roblet

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Re: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC
« Reply #18 on: Friday 19 April 19 21:20 BST (UK) »
i forgot to add that  one of my family was an elizabeth tong  who married into the local king family at dunkirk area over 200 years ago. believe the ancestors are still around the area. they would obviously be my families cousins from way back. whether its the same family or not i dont know. but my mothers family originate in dunkirk 100s of years ago. seems strange jack went to school there. the school wouldnt make that claim if it wasnt true since he would have attended there only a short while before. a vc winner would have been celebrated as was neames from the faversham brewing family who also lived locally and was paraded through the streets by cheering crowds.

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Offline Redroger

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Re: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 21 April 19 16:45 BST (UK) »
There are many twists and turns in this road Roblet. I am sure that this is just a typo in that the Battle of Jutland took place off DEnmark on the 31st May to 1st June 1916. I believe that I , my siblings and other cousins are as close relatives to Jack as survive today. The relationship is through my maternal grandfather, Samuel Ayres who was the son of James Ayres (1844-1923) and Emily Cornwell (1850-1941), Emily being his Aunt. I think this makes us his 1st cousin 2 or 3 times removed. Rmote though it is the link is definite. My grandmother who lived with us until her death in 1953 was very close to Jacks' mother and told me a lot about how to add to her distress his body was exhumed for a state funeral to boost national morale!
The Ayres family had lived at Bottisham (Lode) Cambs since at least the 17th century, and I am aware that Ayres is reputed to be a gypsey surname, so in some ways this came as no surprise to me to find that the Cornwells were too. However, another mystery is that I have recently had an Mt DNA test which came out as 15% British!! (Will Javid evict me?) and 84% West European (as I am a serious Brexiteer this worries me!) The other 1% being Arab, Indian or Computer noise!! This may all have altered since I last looked as more data became available, but no trace of the partly anticipated gypsies!
However, there is obiously a lot more work to do. Still no sign of Travers, (he wasn't the neighbout in 1901)
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

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Offline Redroger

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Re: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 21 April 19 17:03 BST (UK) »
Just one further question. What was the King family' religious affiliation? The Ayres/Cornwell relations were strict Baptist at the Lode congragation.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline roblet

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Re: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 21 April 19 18:44 BST (UK) »
tbh dunkirk in the blean was a 5000 acre forest and was a vast squatter and gypsy settlement. also many came into the area for the fruit and hop picking seasons.  the king family are related to us as a female  elizabeth tong married a king. king is also a common gypsy name. as for your  dna well that should be checked against his male relatives known family whom i believe moved to canada.   although one in the navy claims to be his great nephew.check your dna against his.its common for gypsies to call side relations cousins,same as in the old days and especially in the usa today. close family friends would also be referred to as ''auntie'' ive done it myself. why dont you ask faversham/swale council where they got the records from. theres was no actual village of dunkirk just scattered home built dwellings . my family owned about 4 places around there. but we arent gypsies,mine were rabid puritans.2 of them were called ''acts apostles'' ive also seen youve asked before on here redroger about gypsies, well i believe some of your other names are too. tbh. i do  too however have several cousins who are married to gypsies and their children are my cousins and i have many gypsy friends. a lot of homeless lived in these ''itinerant camps'' as the govt  called them,there was a huge one at fawkham in kent . perhaps they had relatives there. also that name eli sounds suspiciously like a gypsy name as the christian ones usually took biblical names. eli means god in hebrew ,go on the RTFHS site where they keep all the records for travellers,its a brilliant site. if cornwell was there then it was probably for the fruit or hop picking,also eyres is another version of ayres. tbh ive seen gypsies even get names wrong on here,someone asked is loveridge a gypsy name and some ''expert'' said no, well hes wrong too because it is.and very common. in fact im certain that this cornwell and eli family has gypsy roots.     i was just about to post this when you asked me about the kings religion. well my tong family were puritans originally, so were the sellings/shillings and the branchetts were huguenots  and many in that area were non conformists and it was a hotbed of puritans ,but puritanism was gradually stamped apon by the c of e. my gran used to go with 100s of others on a sunday to listen to the travelling preacher at shottenden woods where theres a pulpit cut out of the banks,he came on horseback. he was probably baptist or methodist. theres still old chapels about the area. my gran was born 1888. her grandfather born about 1830  lived at shottenden  but he was born dunkirk as was her grandmother mary tong. and her father too , the c of e had a campaign against them imposing tithes apon their churches in an effort to stamp them out.i would imagine they would now be c of e. i mean the names in my family lol there were two ''acts apostles'' isaac was my 3 x great grandad, there were josiah's josephs and many more, they were puritans. i believe that king family still existed in the area when i was a kid,i remember spencer king was a wealthy contractor but believe his son died but think they are still about the blean area. they arent gypsies anymore . if they were that is. gypsies were originally restricted by law and could only reside in the woods.

Offline Redroger

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Re: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 21 April 19 20:25 BST (UK) »
That is a history in itself Roblet..Thanks I am doing some research on Tuesday, I was going to try and pin down my 3 great grandfather's records but will try to make a fresh start on Jack's mother instead.
By the way I am told that parts of the family had arranged marriages I have found some circumstantial evidence but have largely VB met with a wall of silence which makes me suspicious.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline roblet

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Re: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 21 April 19 20:39 BST (UK) »
dont get too excited lol but lilian annie king born 1872 blean kent. believe dunkirk came under blean or bridge area registration . eli previously served in the army.well there were several large barracks in that area  at nearby canterbury   also  dover and folkestone and in faversham. and maidstone and chatham/gillingham.no death seen for that name. i dont have ancestry or subs to any site so you must check this out,BUT! if jack went to dunkirk school then my bet is this may be her. had to check it out because suspense was killing me especially as she may be distantly related. hope it is. the old canterbury  barracks were on sturry rd. also blean covered the area next to caterbury and whitstable as well. my 4th tong cousin lives in blean area. just checked and it was blean reg district then. so if true this would be why its on the faversham website.

Offline roblet

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Re: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 21 April 19 21:03 BST (UK) »
theres also swathes of travers families in kent as well i can see on the indexes, that could be one of her ancestors names possibly her mothers or grandparents maiden name etc

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Re: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 23 April 19 14:30 BST (UK) »
got a reply from faversham, swale council and theyve amended the battle  date to 1916 and say he attended as a pupil at dunkirk,  this was an infant/junior school.would have helped if they said when.but the historian , the learned mr percival has passed away .

Offline Redroger

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Re: Mother of John Travers Cornwell VC
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 23 April 19 17:55 BST (UK) »
Thanks very much Roblet, I went to our local library this morning and started afresh with Jack. I found that in the 1911 census he and at least one, probably two brothers were accomodated in the workhouse at West Ham. From memory there was some problem over their care, and later they came out of care and went home again. Next stop to look at the Baptist marriage records if they are deposited to find if Eli and Lily did marry in a Baptist church and weren't bothered about the civil registration. I attended such a marriage in the 1990s, they were persuaded it was important to secure things like legitimacy and state pensions etc, so they had a civil ceremony first. Strangely enough it ended in divorce!
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)