Completed: James Arthur HENRY 1881-1957

[Tickettyboo]

Hi manawakian

Well Elizabeth was born in 1894 (birth registered Q4 1894, baptised Oct 1894, down as 18 on the Apr 1912 marriage cert) and I did wonder about the age of 'Lily' on that passenger list.

So I checked the England & Wales Marriage Index on Free BMD for a marriage between a James Henry and a lady with a first name of Lil* between 1900-1912. There were only 2, one in 1902 and one in 1906, which would definitely discount the first one on age and make the second one 'unlikely' on age too. So this passenger list, even with the first name not being a match is still in my 'possible' category.

I believe I have tracked down a grandchild of James and Elizabeth with an online tree, but its been over a year since they signed into their account. I have sent a message but no idea if they will see it and, if they do, if they can shed any light on it. Hope springs eternal though :-)
I'll post back if ever I get to the bottom of it. The only other thing is to wait for Saskatchewan to put the 1913 birth index online and see 'if' this George William Athol was registered and if so, what it says about his parents.

Thanks so much for your interest, at least now I have 'possibles' to work on :-) They may be a bit smoke and mirrors but hey! its better than I had before I posted in here!

Boo

[Jacquie in Canada]

The only other thing is to wait for Saskatchewan to put the 1913 birth index online and see 'if' this George William Athol was registered and if so, what it says about his parents

I wouldn't put much hope in that. They haven't added entries to that database since it was first put online over 5 years ago.

Jacquie

[Tickettyboo]

Hi Jacquie
Well I wasn't gonna hold my breath ... :-)

Though I have sent an email giving the details I have and asking if they can confirm the parents names if the registration exists - as its now outside their 100 year privacy rule but not yet available on the website. 
They may not reply, or they may reply and say they can't tell me, but my Granda Albert always told me that shy bairns get nowt , so I've asked anyway :-)

Boo

[Tickettyboo]

So sorry, just when I thought I had done all I can for the moment, I am back again.

Okay so from manawakian's suggestions, I now have these 'possibles' for items 2 & 3 from my original list

2 James Henry age 30 stone cutter and wife Lily age 21, both born England, arrive Quebec City 13 May 1912 aboard CORSICAN headed for Regina Saskatchewan

3 Lillie Hendry age 22 and William Hendry infant aboard PRETORIAN from Montreal to Glasgow arrived 3 Nov 1914.  Only likelies found on incoming list between 1914 and 1918.  Arrived UK 25 days before James, probably travelled separately because of submarine threat.

possible, even likely, but the name change from Elizabeth to Lily is the fly in the ointment.

I have been poking round in other records, trying to find 'something' that may verify the crossing in May 1912 on the Corsican and I have found an attempted border crossing (he was debarred) from Winnipeg, Man to the US dated 24 Nov 1914.
Its really difficult for these old eyes to read, so if anyone has access to these records, I would appreciate an opinion.

What I can make out is:
Left Hand Side of Form:

Line 6 Stamped: Debarred, Henry (stamped B.S.I. - I don't know what that means), James Arthur, age 34, male, married, Labourer, can read, can write, Nationality Canada, Race, English,
Then it starts to get cramped and difficult to tell which line the entry belongs to

Last permanent residence - City appears to be Regina,
Name of relative/friend in country from whence he came
Friend Mrs Kerr, 1807 Halifax St, Regina (I think!)
Destination state seems to be Minnesota? City I can't make out the name.

So far so good, age is a bit out, but city he came from matches and 'if' his wife was Lily, then she had already left for the UK, so a putting a friend on the form, rather than his wife, seems okay too.


Right Hand side of the form:

yes he has a ticket to get to Minnesota, paid for by a friend, No he doesn't have at least $50 with him.
never been in the US before, (stamp- Contract Laborer) Name & Address of person he is joining: Chief Engineer {can't read the next word} Machinery Co, {same city name I couldn't read before}

skip the next few columns about his appearance, health  etc etc
and then  . .
Country of Birth England  City or Town of birth GATESHEAD ON TYNE Whoopeee!!
and he landed in Quebec in May 191?on the Corsican Mega Whoopee!

Oh please, if anyone can look I'd love to know if I've read it correctly and pinned him down.

If I have read it correctly I have a new possible scenario.
For whatever reason they decided to go home to the UK. Lily/Elizabeth went first with the baby and James Arthur had a job offer in the US, so he was going there to make some money and would follow when the job was finished - OR maybe she would go back if it turned into a good, permanent job.
The US authorities wouldn't allow him to enter the US on 24th Nov 1914, so he cashed in his ticket to Minnesota and with whatever he 'did' have in his pocket maybe had just enough to get a ticket on the Grampian on 28th November 1914.

I'm worn out now! :-)

Boo

[manawakian]

This is getting to be an interesting mystery.  The person applying for entry to the US has the details of James Henry's arrival in Canada aboard the Corsican down pat, and is aware of his Gateshead bp and middle name Arthur, which is info not found on the passenger list.  The problem is that the correct James Henry should be a 32 year old stone cutter with a wife and family heading back to England, not a 34 year old penniless labourer with a prospective job at a machine shop in Minnesota.

While we think of identity theft as a modern phenomenon, perhaps this is a century old case of the same thing.  Is it possible that a man whose past would prevent him from entering the US has somehow obtained James' personal information and is assuming his identity to try and cross the border?  If this was identity theft the location of the crime was Regina.

[Tickettyboo]

hmm, well I suppose that 'could' be the case -  everything is possible and I will bear it in mind.

However, the passenger listing for the journey back to the UK, 4 days after the failed border crossing also has his age as 34, but on that list his occupation is down as stonecutter.

I suppose it depends on who decides on what is written down. Maybe when James gave the immigration officer details of what he would be doing (who knows what that would be, maybe they were going to build a new factory rather than him working in the machine shop) the officer decided it came under the general heading of 'labourer'. When he was giving the details for the passenger list the person there just wrote down whatever he said? Lots of ifs and maybes :-)

I am veering on the side of the border crossing being 'highly likely' to be the right person at the moment, until something else turns up that may either discount it or confirm it further :-)

Thanks again manawakian, the help I have had in here has been invaluable in opening up new areas and theories to explore.

Boo

[polarbear]

A most interesting thread!

I was wondering if George W A married a Marion in 1946 (FreeBMD)? If this is the same George the cert should give you his father's name?

The failed border crossing is certainly enticing.

PB

[Tickettyboo]

hello polarbear

Yes, you are right, though its frustrating at times, tracking folk like this 'is' interesting. It takes me a while but I am sure I'll get there in the end.

Thanks for the marriage reference, I hadn't actually got that far but am now looking into it to see what I can find out :-)

Boo

[manawakian]

Free BMD has a marriage for Albert Henry to Christina B Nairn Jul-Sep 1915 Belford.  This couple had a child named Lilian born Oct-Dec 1922 Gateshead which died Jan-Mar 1924 Gateshead.