Author Topic: Jack Florance (born as john)  (Read 3389 times)

Offline tracy67

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Jack Florance (born as john)
« on: Saturday 06 December 14 10:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
Does anyone know of Jack Florance went to war and die at war before his daughter Queenie was born. Jack to me would be my great grand father. D: 1916 (9215 8th corporal )
Once again any information would be great as we font know his back ground nationality his mother is Lucy Newham I believe.

Regards
Tracy smith

Offline garstonite

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Re: Jack Florance (born as john)
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 06 December 14 10:43 GMT (UK) »
Hiya Tracey and welcome to Rootschat
his death record and parents
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/628324/FLORANCE,%20JACK

and his wife who he married - she was obviously a widow Mrs F E A Sullivan
Australia

ADDED
Download the Certificate
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline Liz_in_Sussex

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Re: Jack Florance (born as john)
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 06 December 14 10:45 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

It looks like he was born as James H Florance in Woodstock (Cowra) NSW in 1887 (Australian birth Index).  The record agrees his mum was Lucy.

A tree online seems to have two brothers - Jack (died in Iraq born abt 1887) and James born 1887 died in 1967.  But I can't see a birth for Jack??

Liz

PS ADDED: Parents John Florance and Lucy Newham married Cowra, 1883.
Research interests:
Sussex (Isted, Trusler, Pullen, Botting), Surrey (Isted), Shropshire (Hayward), Lincolnshire (Brown, Richardson), Wiltshire (Bailey), Schleswig-Holstein (Isted),  Nordrhein-Westfalen (Niessen).

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jim1

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Re: Jack Florance (born as john)
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 06 December 14 11:44 GMT (UK) »
The 8th. Cheshire Regt. were part of the 13th. Western Div.
1916:
The Turks pursued the retreating 6th (Poona) Division to Kut, and soon surrounded and cut it off. British forces in Mesopotamia were now growing, the arrival of the experienced 3rd (Lahore), 7th (Meerut) and 13th (Western) Divisions bringing a significant increase in strength. These formations were ordered to advance north along the Tigris to relieve Kut. They ran into strong and stoutly defended lines and suffered some hard knocks; although they got close to Kut, the garrison there was surrendered on 29 April 1916. It was an enormous blow to British prestige and a morale-booster for the Turkish Army.
•The siege of Kut-al-Amara (7 December 1915 - 29 April 1916)
•The efforts to relieve Kut ◦The Battle of Sheik Sa'ad (7 January 1916)
◦The Battle of the Wadi (13 January 1916)
◦The Battle of the Hanna (21 January 1916)
◦The Attack on the Dujaila Redoubt (7 - 9 March 1916)
◦The Battles of the Hanna and Fallahiyeh (5 - 8 April 1916)
◦The Battles of Bait Aisa and Sannaiyat (7 - 22 April 1916)

•The surrender of the Kut garrison (29 April 1916)

He may have died of wounds after the surrender of the Garrison.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline tracy67

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Re: Jack Florance (born as john)
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 06 December 14 11:59 GMT (UK) »
That's very interesting information thank you

Offline tracy67

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Re: Jack Florance (born as john)
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 06 December 14 12:15 GMT (UK) »
Liz
James Herbert was Jacks brother and also George and William.  Jack was born as (John)  in Australia. Jack father John was born in England I believe, natural have no information on John Florance (florence).

Online nanny jan

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Re: Jack Florance (born as john)
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 06 December 14 14:02 GMT (UK) »
Hiya Tracey and welcome to Rootschat
his death record and parents
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/628324/FLORANCE,%20JACK

and his wife who he married - she was obviously a widow Mrs F E A Sullivan
Australia

ADDED
Download the Certificate


I think that reads as his widow remarrying a Mr Sullivan; the CWGC headstone were put in place some years after the death.


Nanny Jan
Howard , Viney , Kingsman, Pain/e, Rainer/ Rayner, Barham, George, Wakeling (Catherine), Vicary (Frederick)   all LDN area/suburbs  Ottley/ MDX,
Henman/ KNT   Gandy/LDN before 1830  Burgess/LDN
Barham/SFK   Rainer/CAN (Toronto) Gillians/CAN  Sturgeon/CAN (Vancouver)
Bailey/LDN Page/KNT   Paling/WA (var)



All census look-ups are crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jim1

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Re: Jack Florance (born as john)
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 06 December 14 16:03 GMT (UK) »
his service records are online.
Interestingly he attested in 22/5/1909. He said he was 23 & a miner from Woodstock Australia.
He was 5' 51/2" tall & a Roman Catholic & weighed in at 128 lbs.
He confirms his parents as being John (deceased) & Lucy.
1 brother Richard aged 30 of Australia.
1 sister Florence Toomey 34 of Chalder St. Marrickville Sydney.
His widow Florence of 144 Clonmore St. Southfields S.W.18 (1916) who received his 14/15 Star & his death plaque in 1919 when she was living at 127 Lavenham Rd. Southfields Wandsworth.
& daughter Queenie b.5/6/1916.
His military record is as follows;
22/5/09 attested 2nd. Batt. Cheshire Regt. 7 years under the Colours + 5 on reserve.
26/5/09 posted to depot.
22/10/09 posted to 1st. Batt.
23/10/09 posted to Belfast to 5/12/10.
6/12/10 posted to 2nd. Batt. & embarked to India until 18/11/14.
25/5/11 receives 1st. Good Conduct Badge.
9/7/12 contracts malaria Jubbulpore India.
6/3/14 promoted to L/cpl.
22/5/14 receives 2nd. G.C.B.
24/12/14 arrived back in the UK.
16/1/15 embarked to France.
17/1/15 promoted to Acting Cpl.
3/2/15 promoted to Cpl.
26/4/15 received gun shot wound to right elbow.
29/4/15 gun shot wound to left shoulder.
3/5/15 gun shot wound to back.
4/5/15 arrived back in the UK & posted to depot.
13/5/15 caught German measles.
21/6/15 posted to 3rd. Batt.
16/9/15 reverted to Pte.
22/9/15 posted to MEF.
8/12/15 promoted to Acting Cpl.
14/2/16 embarked from Port Said.
21/2/16 promoted to Cpl.
28/2/16 disembarked at Basra.
7/4/16 gun shot wound to right shoulder.
18/5/16 admitted to hospital died of Cholera same day.
Extra info;
Mother Lucy Marshall
Brothers Arthur ( 559 Illawana ? Rd. William & Herbert of Sydney.
Married Florence Eliza Annie Holloway 22/8/15 St. Paul's Wimbledon.(awarded 15/6d p.w. widow's pension 4/12/16).
16/3/21 now Mrs. Sullivan receives his B.W.M. living 127 Lavenham Rd.

From the Long,Long Trail;
2nd Battalion
August 1914 : in Jubbulpore, India. Returned to England, landing at Devonport on 24 December 1914.
 Came under orders of 84th Brigade, 28th Division, at Winchester. Landed at Le Havre 17 January 1915.
 Moved in October 1915 to Egypt and then on to Salonika.
 12 January 1916 : the 1st Manx (Service) Company joined and became 'A' Company.


28th. Div. 1915:
The Second Battle of Ypres, as it is known in British military history, encompassed four battles in the northern sector of the Ypres Salient. The first of these began on 22nd April 1915 as a surprise attack by the German 4th Army on the French sector of the Allied Front Line.
This attack witnessed the first use of a new German weapon on the Western Front: a cloud of poisonous gas. Its deadly effect was carried on a gentle breeze towards French troops and as a result of its devastating effect on the French the German infantry made a significant advance into Allied territory within a few hours.
During the following four weeks after the surprise gas cloud attack the Allied Forces of Belgium, France and Britain fought to hold off the successful German advance and to regain the ground that had been lost north of Ypres. The battle ended on 25th May 1915.

He must have received his first 3 wounds here.
His 4th. wound will have been at one of these battles:
◦The Battles of the Hanna and Fallahiyeh (5 - 8 April 1916)
◦The Battles of Bait Aisa and Sannaiyat (7 - 22 April 1916)


Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Dundee

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Re: Jack Florance (born as john)
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 06 December 14 16:05 GMT (UK) »
UK Marriages/birth

Marriage
September quarter 1915

FLORANCE    Jack
HOLLOWAY Florence E A
Wandsworth
1d   1829

Birth
September quarter 1916

FLORANCE    Queenie F
Mother: HOLLOWAY
Wandsworth
1d   1209

Marriage
March quarter 1920

FLORANCE    Florence E A
SULLIVAN    John C
Wandsworth
1d   1059

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

If you purchase a transcription of John and Lucy's marriage certificate it should tell you where they were both born, the names of their parents and also their father's occupations.  Sometimes this info is missing from the registry copy and you will need to chase up the church register.  You could also instead get a birth cert for any of their children which will give you their birthplaces.  The names are not too common so they might not be difficult to find.

4230/1883
FLORANCE, JOHN
NEWHAM, LUCY
Registered at CARCOAR

https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?42

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html#transcription

Debra  :D