Author Topic: Angliscised names - FELLMAN, LANDMAN  (Read 10627 times)

Offline brigidmac

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Angliscised names - FELLMAN, LANDMAN
« on: Saturday 27 December 14 01:39 GMT (UK) »
Having found the names of my great grandfather's siblings on Latvian data base
I'm wondering how likely it is Fellman's living at an address in Birkenhead on 1901 census could actually be his  family as several of the  childrens names start the same + are at roughly same  birth years .

The father's russian/jewish names are Leizer-Mendel  His 2nd wife is Sheina
his children  born jacobstadt Russia   are Rebecca1870, george-jacob1870 ,mera b1880,bassa b1882 , sora b1885 david 1886 tauba b1890 , khaya b1891

 in Birkenhead 1901 census Fellman family
the father is listed as Samuel ..wife jane

children May  aged 20,Bessie aged18 , sarah aged16  ,David aged14 Tilly aged 10 ,gertrude born lancashire aged7 + esther b.lancs aged 5

  i dismissed this family earlier in my research

Does Anyone else think these names correspond too well to be coincidental?

 eldest daughter rebecca was married + there is a death record in Manchester for a Taube Fellman but age is 0 and she should be aged 2
Eldest son my ggafther George jacob was living  on a nearby  street .
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

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Offline brigidmac

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Re: Angliscised names
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 27 December 14 06:10 GMT (UK) »
ps there is a birth in Prestwich for a Golde Fellman in 1893 on Freebmd
and a Golda fellman b1893 at manchester Jewsschool in 1898 (0n GR records but  haven't got credits to see the image) could this be Gertrude Fellman  from the Birkenhead 1901 census

In 1891 Betsy,Mary+ Sarah Fellman (ages not given) are also attending the Manchester Jews school  ....surely the same family .
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

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Offline whiteout7

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Re: Angliscised names
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 27 December 14 06:22 GMT (UK) »
I think it is the family you are looking for, the IGI version of the census states they are all born in Russia. It would be a pretty big coincidence for them not to be your family

What do you make of the Golda Feldman born in 1905, Prestwich, Lancashire, England who died in 1905? (Parents?)

Clearly she is not the Golda Fellman attending school in 1898 who was born September 1993 Camden, London, England mother: Mantel

Also a Golda Feldlman born 1912, Mile End Old Town, London, England mother: Lazarus.

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline jbml

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Re: Angliscised names
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 27 December 14 09:20 GMT (UK) »
I think the correlation is good, but coincidences DO happen, so you want to be as sure as you can be.

The fact that the IGI version of the census says born in Russia is helpful ... but where did THEY get it from??

Go back to the original document (FindMtPast allows you to see an image of the actual surviving Census papers ... and I imagine Ancestry must as well) and see what IT says.

If in any remaining doubt, or if it gives the Lancashire birth places, do an elimination search of the BMD registers. Are there any registered births which match? If so, invest in the certificates to satisfy yourself that the parents' names are different.

If there are NO matching birth registrations, then it is pretty certain that they were NOT born in Lancashire, no matter what the census says (just because it was written on a census return doesn't mean it was true ...).

Of course, proving that they were not born in Lancashire is not the same as proving that they were born in Russia (yes ... I know ... but Latvia was part of Russia at the time, was it not?) ... but it helps to strengthen the inferences that can properly be drawn from the coincidence.

Also, I think you need to check the shipping records. First of all, where did the Baltic traders tend to dock in Britain? Were they trading out of the East Coast ports, or were they trading out of Liverpool? I don't know, but I think this is important. If they were trading out of Liverpool then it makes sense that a family recently arrived from Latvia should be present in Lancashire; but if they were trading exclusively out of the East Coast ports, then this migration looks rather less likely.

A lot of the passenger lists survive, and the enhanced subscriptions at FindMyPast (and probably at Ancestry as well) give you access to them. If these children were born in Latvia, and you have them living in Lancashire when they were not yet in their teens, then you have a pretty narrow time band in which to search for their transit records. If you can find them, it should tell you when and where they arrived, and on what ship. Does that make sense, in the context of everything else you know about them? If so, then again, it is only inferential and not firm evidence BUT it is looking pretty good.

My gut feeling is that you are onto the right records here ... but gut feelings only take you so far. You want to find as much additional evidence pointing in the same direction as you can. And if the gut feeling is right then there SHOULD be further evidence. It's just a matter of finding it.

Good luck!
All identified names up to and including my great x5 grandparents: Abbot Andrews Baker Blenc(h)ow Brothers Burrows Chambers Clifton Cornwell Escott Fisher Foster Frost Giddins Groom Hardwick Harris Hart Hayho(e) Herman Holcomb(e) Holmes Hurley King-Spooner Martindale Mason Mitchell Murphy Neves Oakey Packman Palmer Peabody Pearce Pettit(t) Piper Pottenger Pound Purkis Rackliff(e) Richardson Scotford Sherman Sinden Snear Southam Spooner Stephenson Varing Weatherley Webb Whitney Wiles Wright

Offline heywood

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Re: Angliscised names
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 27 December 14 10:05 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

Lancashire BMD is showing these births which could be relevant:
1892
Golde Fellman Cheetham district
1897
Esther L Fillman Cheetham district

These would fit with Prestwich district in Free BMD

There are several variations of the surname in Manchester but these do look a good match.

Regards
Heywood
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Angliscised names
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 27 December 14 12:08 GMT (UK) »
thanks i saw that there were births for a Golde in 1893 and Esther  in 1897 but nothing is listed about them ie parents . could Golde Be Gertrude ? I think I should send for 1 of these births .
I used lots of credits in past on shipping records some of the names or close approximations  come up in 1904 and 1905 from liverpool to USA but can't find enough members together to show it is this family

i have seen the latvian russian records and have exact dates but could be birth or baptism for Mera 31/02/1880,
 Bassa 16/02/1882
sora 30/05/1885
parents listed as Leizer -mendel Fellman + geis-eda (various spellings)
elder sister rebecca's scottish death cert list her parents as lazarus Fellman + Edith landsman
Geisse -eida died in 1888 and Lazurus must have remarried  Shiena soon after as baby Taube was born 3/march 1890
i haven't seen details of david born 1886
my own ggrandfather may have been called Yankel - ? Fellman on the Latvian records after his own grandfather .there was a near 10 year gap between George Jacob b1871and Rebecca Born between 1870-1873 and  the next  surviving siblings; Mera , Bassa , David + Sora  born in 1880's
which also fits with the 1901 birkenhead fdamily
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline heywood

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Re: Angliscised names
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 27 December 14 16:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi again,

I just posted this on an earlier thread but then saw this one so have posted again here- hope it's not too confusing:


Oceanic 9th March 1905

Samuel Feldman, wife and children.
Last residence, Liverpool, 14 yrs.
Going to B Feldman, son, 478 Myrtle Avenue, Brooklyn

Heywood

There are some of the same family on the Celtic manifest in April 1905 but crossed through- going to Barnett Feldman of the above address.


This looks to be the family in 1910 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M5HM-C55


Original posted here today http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702300.msg5516917#msg5516917

Heywood
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Angliscised names
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 27 December 14 16:47 GMT (UK) »
Great news and more name links + variations

I looked at school records ;
 ON 26/10/ 1891 Mary ,Betsy +Sarah  Fellman are admitted to Manchester Jews school  .
father's name is given  as Lazarus ,all born Russia ,their address is 101 Bury New Road
In 1898 Golda Fellman  b1893 is admitted to Manchester Jews school    her father is given as Samuel
  7 bury new road


on 09/01/1900 Matilda Fellman DoB15/3/1891  of 36 Price st Birkenhead is admitted to St John church of England school  her parent /guardian is named as George but maybe her 30yrold big brother took her to be registered,
 she had been at the junior school previously 
 school records from 1902 has Gertie Fellman of 36 price street dob 4/10/1893  entering birkenhead st john church of england school

i have not seen the census from NY  1910 but it looks as if Samuel + jeanie with 5 girls are the same family the ages of gertrude ,matilda + "lestraube"(esther) fit but Celia(sarah:sore)and Bessie(besa )are 5yrs out and Samuel is too young to have adult daughters must be a mistranscription


Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline heywood

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Re: Angliscised names
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 27 December 14 17:11 GMT (UK) »
Did you see the immigration records?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk