Bates Family

[airwest]

Hi
Can anyone shed any light on Samuel Bates born Wednesbury England 1857 died Sydney Australia 1941 I believe he was a drummer boy in England and then served in the Sudan wars while living in Australia and is buried in Rookwood Cemetery with his wife Martha

many Thanks
Gail

[Ruskie]

Welcome to Rootschat Gail.

Do you have Samuel's death certificate? This should tell you his parent's names and other information to enable you to find him and his family back in England. If he married in Australia, his marriage certificate should give similar details.

Do you know when he emigrated to Australia? Depending on dates you may be able to find him in England on censuses with his family.

[Ruskie]

Freebmd has a birth registered in the March quarter of 1857 in West Bromwich (which covers Wednesbury) for a Samuel Bates 6b 661. He appears to be a likely candidate, however you would still need to know the name of your Samuel's father to know if this is the correct birth.

Surprisingly there are very few Samuel Bates born in Staffordshire around this time.

Let me know if you need help ordering certificates. For NSW certificates it is cheaper to use a transcription service rather than purchase a certified copy. I can point you in the right direction if you wish to go ahead with this.

I suspect you may already know a little more about Samuel than you have revealed in your first post - eg. Where did you get the information about his place of birth? His military service? The information about him being a drummer boy?

The more information you can give the better to save others from duplicating what you already know about Samuel. 

[Ruskie]

Looking for Samuel Bates bc 1857 in the 1861 census there are a couple of candidates, so the Free bmd results are perhaps a little misleading.

One which caught my eye due to the fact that he was born and is living in Wednesbury, has parents John and Sarah Jane and a number of siblings. You would need his father's name from one of his Australian certificates to be certain. Perhaps his military papers may also provide clues as to parentage, but I cannot advise how to go about searching for this.

[Ruskie]

IF that is the correct family in 1861, then there is a marriage for John Bates with a Sarah Jane Tomlinson on the same page. This marriage is registered in West Bromwich in 1853, which fits in date and place wise so may be the correct marriage as their first child, according to the 1861 census, was born in 1854.

Further research and confirmation of your Samuel's parent's names required before accepting this couple into your tree. 

[airwest]

Many Thanks
Your right, I do know a little more I have tracked the family back to 1754. But  I was hoping that someone could help  guide me in the right direction, regarding him being a drummer boy approx 1869 onward  as we are only going by family hearsay  and to an exact burial place, as there is conflicting information from Rookwood Cemetery it's self and I can't find a headstone and as the older past generation have passed  there is no one to refer back too and being the oldest at 70yrs, its been left to me
Yes, his father's name was John and his mother Sarah and the last trace of Samuel in the census was  when he was 13 yrs and next appears when he left for the sudan wars from Australia
All paper work regarding him have disappeared over the years

Thanks for your help 

 

[Ruskie]

Do you think he was a drummer boy in the military? I remember an episode of Who Do You Think You Are and I think one of the celebreties' ancestors was a bugler and there were records for him, but
I don't know where you would start finding a drummer in the UK. If he was in a community band or similar it is not likely that there is any record of this.

Was he a drummer in Sudan too?

Perhaps someone on the Armed Forces board may be able to help?

[wivenhoe]

Re..your Samuel BATES b. ~ 1857

"...when he left for the Sudan wars from Australia"

The NSW Infantry Contingent for the Sudan left Sydney Mar 1885. Samuel would have been aged late 20s.  The military connection might not be correct.
(my correction....I thought you were saying he was drummer boy in Sudan)

Further to burial place....where is his wife buried......and what is the conflicting information from Rookwood please?

[wivenhoe]

SMH 20 May 1941
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17765533?
...Samuel BATES....Sudan Contingent........