Tregaron

[Dannemois]

I wish you all at Rootschat Best Wishes for 2015

I would greatly appreciate help. I have the birth certificate for Thomas Edwards born 2 Jan 1845 at Cammerfach, Caron is Clawdd, Tregaron, Cardiganshire.  Father Edward Edwards, occupation hosier, mother Winifred Edwards, formerly Jones.  I understand Caron is Clawdd is the old parish but for the life of me I can not find any reference to Cammerfach.   

Also listed on Genuki Pigot & Co. South Wales directory 1844, for Tregaron there are two residents listed, namely Edward Edwards, hosier and Nathaniel Edwards, hosier.  With the same surname and occupation, could they be related? I wonder if someone could please do a look-up on the 1841 census for Tregaon.

Regards, Roy

[KGarrad]

The GenUKI page on Tregaron says:

Places, villages, farms etc within Tregaron parish   as shown on the online parish map from the CD of Historic Parishes of England and Wales: an Electronic Map of Boundaries before 1850 with a Gazetteer and Metadata [computer file]. (Kain, R.J.P., Oliver, R.R.). (Extracted by Dewi Evans)

    Argoed Ystrad 38A; Tref-lyn 38B; Blaen Caron 38C; Tre Cefel 38D; Croes + Berwyn 38E; Blaen Aeron 38F
    Abercoed; Afon Berwyn; Afon Groes; Argoed; Banc; Bryn Hownant; Bryn Lloi; Cairns; Cammer Fawr; Carn Felen; Carn Fawr; Caron-is-Clawdd; Castell; Castell Rhyfel; Craig; Clogan; Craig Esgeirydd; Craig Pont Shiri; Craig y Ffridd; Crynfryn bychan; Cwn yr Olchfa; Cwys yr Ychain-banog; Cyrtau; Derlwyn; Derw Garon; Diffwys; Dildre; Esgair Fraith; Ffos y Cenglau; Ford; Glan Brennig; Glan yr afon uchaf; Golf Links; Goppa Isaf; Groes Fawr; Llan Berwyn; Llwyn yr Hwch; Maes Glas; Maes Llyn; Mill; Ochor; Pant Rhedwyn; Pant Shiri; Pant y crat; Pen Llanerch; Pen y Bont; Pont Einon; Sanatorium; School; Sunnyhill; Tan yr Allt; Tan y Craig; Teifi; Tre Cefel; Trefly; Tregaron; Ty'n y Swydd; Ty'n Eithin; Ty'n y Coed; Waun Fawr; Y Drwn; Y Garn; Y Glog

Maybe a clue there?

Fach meaning small, and fawr meaning great!

[keyboard86]

Cannot explain Cammer but Fach =Little and Fawr=Great in Welsh?

Keyboard86

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Hi

I can see a Winefred Edward, 25 at Cwmdu, Caron Ys Clawdd (according to the Ancestry transcription but Uwch Clawdd on the image). She's a wool picker, but no Edward. ref HO107, 1376, 38, 2

OK found them in 1851 at "Cammerfach" Nearby properties/settlements include Penybont, Coed, Peckadilly, Ty Cam, Cammerfawr, treflin Fach, Ty'n Llyn

The enumeration district description says it covers the townships of Blaencam and Treflyn [?]

I can see a Treflin cottage very near Cors Caron today, so think that's the area, and one reference to Cammerfach/Cammer fach on welsh newspapers online

[Dannemois]

Hi Mabel
I have a marriage certificate for Edward Edwards and Winifred Jones 31 May 1939 the ceremony at the Parish Church of Caron so I would be interested in seeing the household details for Winifred in 1841. 

and if possible I would also like to see the full details for Edward and Winifred in 1851

Regards & Best Wishes, Roy

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Hi Roy

This is 1851 - all born Caron

Gwenifred Edwards    33 - hosier's wife
Margaret Edwards    8
Thomas Edwards    6
Elizabeth Edwards    3
Richard Edwards    3 Mo [may be 1 month]

The reference for 1841 is HO107, 1376, 38, 2 - she's transcribed alone (as Winefred) but appears to be with John Jones (shepherd) and family of Cwm du

1861 - still at Cammerfach, village of Treflyn,

Winifred Edwards    44 - widow, laundress
Elizabeth Edwards    13
Richard Edwards    9
David Edwards    6

RG9, 4203, 39, 6

[Dannemois]

Hi Mabel
Many thanks for the details; I wonder where Edward was in 1851?  You will note on my opening message a piece transcribed from Genuki Pigot & Co. South Wales directory 1844, for Tregaron which lists two residents Edward Edwards, hosier and Nathaniel Edwards, hosier.  I wonder if you could do a look-up on the 1841 census Nathaniel; maybe Edward could be with him?  I really am clutching at straws I know but I would appreciate your help.

Roy

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Think I have Nathaniel in both 1841 and 1851 - in a Bridgend (Glamorgan) lodging house run by a Mary Jones. Stocking ??/Hosier, b Tregaron c1804 according to 1851.

In 1861 he appears to be back in Tregaron - b Llangyby - with wife Elizabeth b Tregaron and grand-daughter Elizabeth Alma b Winsconsin. 1871 is similar, with the grand daughter b Milwaukee

I have a possible for Edward in 1851 - there's a chap b Tregaron c 1811 visiting a Davies family in High St Merthyr. He's one of a number there described as hawker - but he could be selling his stockings door to door? Nathaniel in later years is described as a stocking dealer.  there are numerous Edward Edwards around the right age in 1841

[Dannemois]

Hi Mabel
I was hoping to find Edward and Nathaniel in the same household but I guess its a lot to ask for with the way our ancestors moved around in those days.  On the marriage cert for Edward & Winifred, his age is given as 30 which calculates his birth circa 1809, close to the details you have (1811).  There is only one draw back, his occupation in 1839 (marriage cert) is recorded as 'shepherd'.  I suppose he could have changed occupation by 1841/51. 

I would still like to see the details you found so if it is not too much work for you; they will be appreciated.

Regards, Roy