Author Topic: Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please  (Read 6011 times)

Offline HarrisonHart

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Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please
« on: Sunday 04 January 15 22:45 GMT (UK) »
I have found what I think are some Irish relatives in Heath Charnock, 1871 Census.

Address: Turners Smithy, (in the area to the west of the highway/along the canal)
Michael McCrystal 57 Labourer Waterworks, Born Ireland
Susan McCrystal 45 - , Ireland
Michael McCrystal 14, Labourer Waterworks, Born Ireland
Arthur McCrystal 12, Labourer Waterworks, Ireland
John McCrystal, 10, Scholar, Ireland.

I wondered if anyone can point me to 1) Info about the waterworks 2) Info about Turners Smithy - was it a road or an Inn or something?  Was it dedicated housing for waterworks workers? 3) Pertinent info about the area?

They only appear in the one census, seemingly going from in Desertmartin, Co Derry to this place for work and later returning home to Ireland. (later Arthur and John both married women from their home town in Ireland and moved back to England).
Angela, Perth, West Australia.

Harrison: Garston (L'pool), Dublin, Athlone, (Irl), Madras/Chennai and Burma (British India/India) and Sth Africa, and Australia.
Hart: Garston and Woolton (UK), Roscommon (Irl).
McC(h)rystal: Garston, Wigan, Desertmartin (Nrthn Irl), Canada, USA, Australia
Miller: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Jones: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Boyle: (Derry, Irl)
Gill: Garston L'pool UK, and Ireland.
Cannon: Woolton and Roscommon
Callaghan: Unknown.
And more.

Offline gortonboy

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Re: Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please
« Reply #1 on: Monday 05 January 15 04:17 GMT (UK) »
I think Turners Smithy was part of the Bay Horse pub in Heath Charnock. 

About the Pub

Dating from the 1750's, this attractive stone built inn overlooks open country and the Rivington Hills. Built as a coaching inn and later extended to include the old smithy, this multi roomed pub has exposed stonework and beams and several open fires.

click on the link,,,,then click on the text     where the header is Horrobin lane and New road

http://andertonlocalhistory.blogspot.co.uk/

MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
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Offline HarrisonHart

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Re: Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 January 15 12:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much.  I'd actually found that page but (stupidly) didn't realise I could click on each link!  I'm still confused as to what exactly Turner Smithy is.  On the census its actually recorded as Turners Smithy (Turner with an s on the end).  Which to me sounds like Turner was a mans surname, and it was his blacksmithing business?  But why would a whole bunch of people (not just my family) be living in a blacksmiths store?  Alternatively, it seems to be saying the actual pub was called Turner Smithy, but in the census, there are separate records for people at Bay Horse Inn (edit-no theres not).  Third idea is it was a part of a road, that got known as Turner Smithy, because it was near that business? Hmm
Angela, Perth, West Australia.

Harrison: Garston (L'pool), Dublin, Athlone, (Irl), Madras/Chennai and Burma (British India/India) and Sth Africa, and Australia.
Hart: Garston and Woolton (UK), Roscommon (Irl).
McC(h)rystal: Garston, Wigan, Desertmartin (Nrthn Irl), Canada, USA, Australia
Miller: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Jones: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Boyle: (Derry, Irl)
Gill: Garston L'pool UK, and Ireland.
Cannon: Woolton and Roscommon
Callaghan: Unknown.
And more.


Offline HarrisonHart

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Re: Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 January 15 13:06 GMT (UK) »
I found this, http://www.genoot.com/eng/lan/s/standish/baines_1824.html
Its from a book which is also available on google books. 
Just over halfway down on the left hand column, is this entry:
6 Dickinson Ralph, fire brick maker,
    Turner smithy

6 Means it was in Heath Charnock
Dickinson Ralph is the man
Fire brick maker is his trade
Turner Smithy I think is his address. 
Angela, Perth, West Australia.

Harrison: Garston (L'pool), Dublin, Athlone, (Irl), Madras/Chennai and Burma (British India/India) and Sth Africa, and Australia.
Hart: Garston and Woolton (UK), Roscommon (Irl).
McC(h)rystal: Garston, Wigan, Desertmartin (Nrthn Irl), Canada, USA, Australia
Miller: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Jones: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Boyle: (Derry, Irl)
Gill: Garston L'pool UK, and Ireland.
Cannon: Woolton and Roscommon
Callaghan: Unknown.
And more.

Offline HarrisonHart

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Re: Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 06 January 15 13:10 GMT (UK) »
I think this page explains the layout of the names/address/trades of the people in the book.  I still don't know precisely what it is saying Turner Smithy is.
Angela, Perth, West Australia.

Harrison: Garston (L'pool), Dublin, Athlone, (Irl), Madras/Chennai and Burma (British India/India) and Sth Africa, and Australia.
Hart: Garston and Woolton (UK), Roscommon (Irl).
McC(h)rystal: Garston, Wigan, Desertmartin (Nrthn Irl), Canada, USA, Australia
Miller: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Jones: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Boyle: (Derry, Irl)
Gill: Garston L'pool UK, and Ireland.
Cannon: Woolton and Roscommon
Callaghan: Unknown.
And more.

Offline BashLad

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Re: Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 January 15 17:52 GMT (UK) »
Turner's Smithy was the name of the hamlet consisting of the Bay Horse Inn and the clutch of houses around it.

Most likely around 1700 some bloke called Turner had a smithy there and agricultural labourers cottages and the like developed around it.

If you go to old-maps.co.uk and look at the earliest OS maps you'll see it marked on. Apparently the post office still calls the post box there by the name.

It's just the name of the hamlet.
WHITEHOUSE- Bromsgrove, WANE - Eccleston, TOWERS - Blackburn & Ribble Valley, COLLINGE - Rawtenstall, THOMAS - Penzance, Whitehaven, Haslingden.

Offline andrewalston

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Re: Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 06 January 15 18:38 GMT (UK) »
The reservoirs the McCrystal men would be working on were built to supply Liverpool. A new one was being added when the 1871 census was taken.

Have a look at: http://www.white-coppice.co.uk/rivington_reservoirs.htm

The Bay Horse is still a decent pub, with good beer and food.

Incidentally, Babylon Lane, which runs up to the Bay Horse from the crossroads in Adlington, is part in Adlington, part in Anderton and part in Rivington. There is some snobbery about which place particular houses sit in - Rivington commands a higher price!
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

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Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 06 January 15 19:53 GMT (UK) »
The Preston Guardian, Sat, Mar 8 1873
CHORLEY - DISTRICT NEWS
"Turner's Smithy - Mr Martin asked permission to improve the corner of the road at Turner's Smithy, by widening it at that point ...... After a short discussion, the motion was put and lost by a majority of three"
S. Wales, Somerset, Devon - Oxenham

Aberavon - Hopkin/s, Jenkins, Thomas
St. Brides/Wick - Jenkins
Llanblethian -  Price
Abergwynfi -  Han(d)ford
Pontardawe -  Lewis.

Offline HarrisonHart

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Re: Heath Charnock 1871 census, Turners Smithy, Waterworks, help please
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 07 January 15 04:44 GMT (UK) »
This is all wonderful information, thanks all!  I didn't really know what made a hamlet, now I do thanks BashLad :)

andrewalston thanks so much for the link about the waterworks in the area.  I must be getting denser with age, I couldn't find any decent info about it.  Its perfect, thanks again.

Thanks also Hanes Teulu for the newspaper clipping and the inbox which helped me get the clearest view yet of the hamlet.  I had visited that site but did not know how to search/utilise it properly.  deeply appreciate it.
Angela, Perth, West Australia.

Harrison: Garston (L'pool), Dublin, Athlone, (Irl), Madras/Chennai and Burma (British India/India) and Sth Africa, and Australia.
Hart: Garston and Woolton (UK), Roscommon (Irl).
McC(h)rystal: Garston, Wigan, Desertmartin (Nrthn Irl), Canada, USA, Australia
Miller: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Jones: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Boyle: (Derry, Irl)
Gill: Garston L'pool UK, and Ireland.
Cannon: Woolton and Roscommon
Callaghan: Unknown.
And more.