Marion Woodburn - b. Ayr, Scotland, possibly 1819

[pollyhow]

I’m seeking confirmation on early life of my ancestor Marion Woodburn, who died New Zealand 1908. Death certificate shows she was 92, born Scotland, father’s surname Woodburn (a weaver), mother’s name unknown. Have found birth record showing Marion Woodburn born 3 Oct 1819 West Kilbride, Ayr to parents John Woodburn and Mary Brown. Also marriage record for parents 20 Jun 1818, Kilmaurs, Ayr. Was wondering can I be sure I have the right parents for Marion? Have read many old records have been lost. Can’t find more births for parents John Woodburn/Mary Brown. Also can't find census record for them. Don’t know what became of them after Marion born. Have 1841 census for a Marion Woodburn, aged 20, female servant, living in household Grange Street, Kilmarnock with two other Woodburns named Jessie aged 30 and Willie aged 25 (both females) but can’t be sure this is correct Marion or who Jessie and Willie were. Do have Marion’s marriage record. She married Thomas McCulloch, Kilmarnock, Ayr on 16 Dec 1845. They migrated to Australia 1848 on Mahomed Shah along with daughter Mary (born 1843 – no birth record for her).[/font][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[Ruskie]

Nothing about Marion's father's name on her 1845 marriage record I suppose?

So was daur Mary was born in 1843 before Marion married? Have you checked for her birth under the surname Woodburn and McCulloch (and variations)?

Is there any indication on any records in NZ or Australia which part of Scotland Marion was from?

Presumably you have found that the Ayrshire records fit with the age of your Marion hence your belief this may be her birth and parents?

Have you checked elsewhere in Scotland for the birth of a Marion Woodburn? You may just have to use a process of elimination - eg if you can only find one Marion Woodburn in the whole of Scotland born in the right time frame and only one on the 1841 census, then it may be that she is yours.

Have you looked for deaths for John Woodburn and Mary Brown - not that that will help you determine if they are parents of Marion, but if they both died young it may explain why you can't find any siblings for Marion and why she was living with possibly related Woodburns in 1841.

The fact that she named her daughter Mary (possibly after her possible mother Mary Brown) adds a bit of weight to the theory that you have found the correct parents, however with Mary being such a common name, it may just be coincidence. Did she name any sons John?

One last thought - as you probably know the Scottish used many names interchangably, so it might be worth considering other names and variations of Marion ...

[loobylooayr]

Hi,

The two Woodburns at Grange Street - Jessie and Willie may not be related to Marion (could be a co-incidence). They are both of independent means ....she is a servant.
Willie Woodburn also seems to be on the 1851 and 1861 Census....can't see her on 1871 .So assuming she died in Scotland there should be a death record and you could see who her parents were.
Looby

Added- Suggested you look at Willie's parents to see if they were John Woodburn and Mary Brown but have just realised that you are not even sure that this couple are Marion's parents. Doh! Too late at night for me ....should be sleeping 

[Ruskie]

No, that is a good idea Looby. IF Willie's parents are John Woodburn and Mary Brown then it's a big coincidence that Marion is living with them and it is possible she has the same parents. It may be that Jessie and Willie are related more distantly and are not siblings of Marion. BUT it is definitely worth tracing them and their parents in case their is a connection a generation or two back. maybe they are Aunts or Great Aunts, Cousins .....  It seems too much of a coincidence to ignore.
(presumably Willie will be Wilhelmina or similar)

[loobylooayr]

Hi Ruskie,
Yes Willie could be short for Wilhelmina or it could just be Willie Maybe the parents really wanted a boy? I'm sure I've found her in 1851 living at Townhead Cottage , Symington Ayrshire ( not that far outside Kilmarnock)
Willie C Woodburn     F    Unmarried  38  Visitor      born Ayrshire Kilmarnock

She's staying with a Janet Caldwell  F  Unmarried   45     Annuitant born Ayrshire Kilmarnock
there is also a child  John Woodburn  M   Visitor              7   Born  Briitish East Indies
and a servant  Helen Roger age 17 of Symington.

I had wondered if the above Janet Caldwell was perhaps a widowed Jessie Woodburn?? But Janet is recorded as unmarried.

Looby

Added - I'm quite sure this is young John Woodburn's birth https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG3X-WNY

[pollyhow]

My thanks to both of you for putting so much thought into trying to help me. Unfortunately I tried following up with your suggestions on Jessie and Willie Woodburn but couldn’t come up with anything.

Meanwhile I decided to search for Thomas McCulloch in the 1841 census and found a Thomas McCulloch, aged 20, carpet weaver, living in Eglinton Street, Gorbals, Lanarkshire, born outside Census County. I was interested when I saw this record because I remember having seen an 1841 record for a John and Mary Woodburn who lived in Gorbals, and I looked up this record again. They lived in Portugal Street, Gorbals, both aged 40, John a labourer and Mary a sewer. There were two younger Woodburns living with them – William and George both aged 15, both masons. Also living with them was James Brown aged 15, a mason. The name Brown rang a bell because that was the maiden name of the Mary who married John Woodburn in 1818. This household were all born outside Census County. So it is just possible that this John and Mary living in Gorbals in 1841 were my ancestor Marion’s parents and it was through them living in Gorbals that enabled Marion to meet Thomas McCulloch who also lived in Gorbals at that time. Another little thought is that Marion’s death registration shows her father to be a weaver. Maybe this Gorbals John Woodburn worked in the same factory where Thomas McCulloch was a carpet weaver? The problem is I have no idea how to prove any of this. Any thoughts?

Polly

[loobylooayr]

Hi Polly,
Sorry that Jessie and Willie came to nothing. Not sure they would be related to your Marion anyway .
I'm just checking something out and will post again shortly

Looby

[loobylooayr]

Hi again, The couple you have found on the 1841 Census at the Gorbals are in fact John Woodburn and Martha Smith married Loudoun Ayrshire 4 Jan 1819.https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT2D-DYW
Martha may have also been called Mary or there has been an error on the Census
She is widowed by the 1851 Census and is living at 20 Clyde Bank, Barony Glasgow.
Martha Woodburn     Widow      51     Eating House Keeper      born Ayrshire, Loudoun
George Woodburn      U  Son     26     Spirit Merchant               born  "               "
Mary Woodburn          U   Dau   24      General Servant             born   "        , Kilmarnock
Mary Brown                Grandau   4  Eating House Keepers Dau   Born   Lanarkshire Glasgow.


Brother William on the 1841 is 10 years later married and living in Carluke. Lanarkshire.
He's still a Mason aged 29 born Loudoun Ayrshire , is married to a Frances and has 3 children
Frances dau 3, John son 1 and Martha dau 1 month.

So could these folk be related to Marrion?? Can I ask what names did she give her own children and in what order please?

Looby 

PS. Interestingly I was born and still live in the  area which was the Loudoun Parish of Ayrshire .

[loobylooayr]

Hi Polly,

One bit of positive news  . The Thomas McCulloch carpet weaver you found on the 1841 in the Gorbals.
BORLAND       Robert       M       30       Carpet Weaver        Outside Census County (1841)           
BORLAND       Agnes       F       25               Outside Census County (1841)           
BORLAND       Agnes       F       20               Outside Census County (1841)           
BORLAND       James       M       4               Outside Census County (1841)           
MCCULLOCH       Thomas       M       20       Carpet Weaver        Outside Census County (1841)           

Well it looks like the Borland family were from Kilmarnock and returned there at some point before 1851 cos here they are again at Titchfield Street in Kilmarnock 1851-
Surname       First name(s)       Rel       Status       Sex       Age       Occupation       Where Born       Remarks   
BORLAND       Robt       Head       M       M       40       Carpet Weaver        Ayrshire - Kilmarnock           
BORLAND       Agnes       Wife       M       F       35       Millener        Ayrshire - Irvine           
BORLAND       Agnes       Sister       U       F       34       Sewer In Receip Of Par Relief        Ayrshire - Kilmarnock           
ADAMS       Elizebeth       Orphan       -       F       8       Scholar In Receipt Parish Rel        Ayrshire - Kilmarnock       

If Thomas returned too that could be when he met and married Marion Woodburn
We are getting somewhere!!
Looby