Author Topic: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.  (Read 3952 times)

Offline Rudolf H B

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Re: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 04 February 15 02:35 GMT (UK) »
Some years ago I have met a man, who had stolen his birth certificate from the records office.
He was only allowed to get a copy without the name of his father and to have a look on his father's name (German nobility). At that moment the phone started to ring ...


Very often a catholic priest had been producer of an illegitimate child with his housemaid. Before 1871 the pregnant girls used to go to the next German state and the child was born on foreign territory.

Regards
Rudolf
 
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Kummerer (London, Chicago & Australia).

WW1 - Cousins Killed in Action in the Australian, English, French & German Armies

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Offline Daffydodge

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Re: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.
« Reply #10 on: Monday 14 September 15 14:45 BST (UK) »
Thank you for all your efforts! I have only just found this.
the page 155 is now shown   ;D and we can see Rudolfine with no father listed.
I need to try and find more information on Theresa and wait for gertrudes record to be released in 2019
Thank you

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Offline carinthiangirl

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Re: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.
« Reply #11 on: Monday 14 September 15 19:03 BST (UK) »
Yes, just also looked as meanwhile the chuchbook for Rudolfine is opened.
Rudolfine Rinner, born March 29, 1914 in Pölshof 9, baptized March 30, 1914;
Mother: Theresia Rinner, single maid (farm lass), born Sept 24, 1894 in Pöls, her jurisdiction to Oberkurzheim l.D.B.? Nr. 356 for community Oberkurzheim from Feb 18, 1912;
Godmother: Walpurga Fussi vulgo "Simabäurin" ( = farmerswife of Sima Farm)
pastor: Viktor Lipusch
midwife: Maria Schnepfleitner
note 1: Son Karl Rinner, born Oct 4, 1933 in Fohnsdorf, married at registry office Köflach Nr. 98/10/65 on Oct 16, 1965 (1st marriage); 
note 2: died March 28, 1960 in Knittelfeld; after notification from registry office Knittelfeld April 4, 1960 Nr.103, 1960;
http://matriken.graz-seckau.at/flashbook?id=12403&currentPage=155
Oberkurzheim: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberkurzheim
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberkurzheim
https://www.google.at/maps/place/8761+Oberkurzheim/@47.2304944,14.5824384,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x4771b6adb9b0da73:0x5d0e5b44c790078e
Looked again for Theresia´s birth and Index says it is on page 222 at year 1894:
http://matriken.graz-seckau.at/flashbook?id=12435&currentPage=22
So, now her birth shows that her jurisdiction to Oberkurzheim is based on the fact that her mother was from there. So the child also has the "home right" of her home place.
Theresia Rinner, born Sept 24, 1894 in Pöls 30
Mother: Aloisia Rinner, there is stated a date Jan 24, 1880, on which was confirmed that she had jurisdiction for
Oberkurzheim, district Judenburg; I will not hope that the date means her birthdate; so if - she would have been 14 giving birth to child Theresia.
Father: not stated, so ilegitim birth
http://matriken.graz-seckau.at/flashbook?id=12422&currentPage=224

It´s a pity - no more info for Aloisia like parents and more…..  ???

Offline carinthiangirl

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Re: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.
« Reply #12 on: Monday 14 September 15 19:17 BST (UK) »
Found a Josef Rinner, born March 5, 1873 in Markt Oberzeiring 21
died Oct 24, 1943 in Oberkurzheim Thalingasse 5
mother: Johanna Rinner single maid, ilegitim daughter of Klara Rinner, single, maidservant; jurisdiction for Pöls
http://matriken.graz-seckau.at/flashbook?id=12320&currentPage=9

So who is Josef? A brother of Aloisia? Could be possible…..
Must find Aloisia. Searching for Oberkurzheim showed me Oberzairing church books also.
So must look again at Pöls and what I found in the past. We had some Rinner on 1st page of this thread. We had an Aloisia there….

….ok - this was her, no idea if the correct person  ::) Very confusing family….
Rinner Aloisia in June 18, 1873, page 190
died Dec. 23, 1948, document Standesamt Fohnsdorf Nr. 114/48
mother Helena? Rinner, unmarried daughter of Bartl-Bauer (farm name) in Kumpitz 13
http://matriken.graz-seckau.at/flashbook?id=11060&currentPage=190

Oh, my god - Birth Index for Pöls far back is full with Rinner people.  :o
But I found no Aloisia, so assume it must be the above of Fohnsdorf from Kumpitz 13.

Offline carinthiangirl

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Re: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.
« Reply #13 on: Monday 14 September 15 19:46 BST (UK) »
Another question - have you ever asked about e-mail at Diocesan Archive Graz?
http://www.katholische-kirche-steiermark.at/dioezese/ordinariat/ordinariatskanzlei-und-archiv/dioezesanarchiv

Your direct grandma is:
"GERTRUDE RINNER, born in Graz 23 February 1919. She lived in Judenburg until 1935 when she came to live in England. She died in August 2003."
"...found out that RUDOLFINE RINNER born 29 March 1914 in Pölshof 9 and Gertrude Rinner are both daughters of THERESA RINNER.  :) "

So normally you must get a transcription for Gertrude´s birth, regardless of whether waiting for expiring date of protection time. As a direct descendant not relevant for you. When you send an attachment of your birth and of your mother, so all is confirmed. But assume you got all this dates in the past, or not?

When Gertude was ilegitim, there will not be stated a father like at so many other Rinner births too. Like we have seen. It`s very rare, that the father of an ilegitim child is to find at the childs birth registry.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 29 September 15 23:16 BST (UK) »
good luck with your search ..maybe you could look at court records we found my grandmothers birth father because her mother took him to court for child maintenance in 1900 .....also she left a clue in her daughters middle name ;could you look at census of men living locally with 1st name rudolph if it's not too common a name ..maybe Rudolphina named after him .
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline Daffydodge

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Re: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 19 May 16 16:34 BST (UK) »
Thank you all for your help - I visit Austria in 2 weeks!

Rinner Aloisia in June 18, 1873, page 190
died Dec. 23, 1948, document Standesamt Fohnsdorf Nr. 114/48
mother Helena? Rinner, unmarried daughter of Bartl-Bauer (farm name) in Kumpitz 13
http://matriken.graz-seckau.at/flashbook?id=11060&currentPage=190

But I found no Aloisia, so assume it must be the above of Fohnsdorf from Kumpitz 13


Do you think that the ALoisia is the same  as Aloisa born 24th January 1880, her age would be 21 when she had Theresa?

Offline carinthiangirl

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Re: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 21 May 16 17:24 BST (UK) »
Have taken again a look on the church book entry. It is date for a document that was given on  24.1.1880 and confirmed that Helena had jurisdiction for Oberkurzheim, district Judenburg. And so HER birth entry think must be to find there.

Offline Daffydodge

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Re: AUSTRIAN MYSTERY - Father of Austrian grandma, born in Graz 1919 BLACKED out.
« Reply #17 on: Monday 21 January 19 07:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi
You have previously kindly looked up my ancesters in Austria, but we came to a stop looking for my Grandma, GERTRUDE RINNER, born in Graz 23 February 1919
Mother Theresia Rinner.
Carinthiagirl, i think you mentioned that the records would be released in 2019, are you able to see them?
Thank you  :D