Ta for the info but know all that. Yes he was born 1839 and his second name was John. However if he did take that name really I haven't a hope in hell of finding him so many 'John Wests' at this time. However since he gave his name as Valentine in 1861 census and aged 22, a male sensitive age then I feel he's happy with it. So onward and upward. the objective was to use him to get back behind my 'John West' who I cannot get back any further. He said he was born in Middlesex, and there are many John Wests here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! His parents were a Henry West (a carman) and (H)anna(h) Carter. His father was a William West a gardener in Marylebone. Henry had a brother Edwin (a police man) who lived in the same house as my ancestor a John West. I'm trying to prove a link. The images are much clearer if you use prime documentation at the LMA or Southwark lib.