THOMAS HULBERT HOFFMAN VICTORIA PARK PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA died 1903

[homer46]

thanks everyone for your time/effort--i am new to this family history searching so your help is very welcome--i now have clare hoffman died aged 80 in 6/11/1969 she was the wife of rennie leslie millen d 2/9/60a civil servant and ex town clerk--that would make clare born in 1889!!--now was that in australia or the uk-- i believe her mother mary ann cooke is on the 1871 census for eye herefordshire uk but is not with her family in the census in 1881--she had family in sale cheshire and may have went into 'service there'--thomas hulbert hoffman came from manchester so there may be the connection--rosie99 has confirmed daughter gertie being born in perth in 1892 so the interesting period is from census 1871 to gerties birth 1892--at this stage i dont know if mary ann was ever married--regards homer46

[majm]

Re that 1898 Birth for Phoebe HOFFMAN, that Giblet has found for you.

The info on WA birth certificates includes:
Father’s name, occupation, and from 1896, father’s age, and birthplace
Mother’s name, maiden name, and from 1896, mother’s age and birthplace
And from 1896 the marriage date and details of the previous children of the marriage 

WA birth certs can be a tad expensive, but if you seek out the birth cert for the likely youngest child, then you will be getting first hand information from the informant about all the children, and about their parents (afterall it is likely that it is either mum or dad who registers the birth)

http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369921.0

Cheers,  JM

[Dundee]

I see that someone has a family tree which marries Mary Ann COOK/E to a Thomas WHARMBY in Manchester in 1883.  You can see the church register here https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12568-73225-61

I was curious so I looked at the births for 1889 and found this:

Births December Quarter 1889
WHARMBY,  CLARA HULBERT
Registration District  Chorlton, Lancashire
Volume 8c     Page  857

From the immigration records for Victoria:

Ship Orient arrived December 1889

M. A. WHARMBY, aged 29, married female
Clara, infant
Contracted to land at Sydney

A few lines below them is a Harry HULBERT, aged 18, single male  (I wouldn't trust this age, they are often incorrect in immigration records)

From the immigration records for NSW:

Ship Orient arrived December 1889

Hy HULBERT,  Mechanic
Mrs WHARMBY, Wife

So they are in NSW, and there is this birth:

1892
#26046
WHARMBY, GERTRUDE H    
Mother: MARY A
Father:  Not named
Registered at NEWTOWN

Then in WA this birth:

1895
WHARMBY, NELLIE
Mother: MARY ANN WHARMBY
Father:  Not named
Registered at PERTH
#1219

The only birth registered in WA as HOFFMAN:

1898
HOFFMAN,  PHOEBE
Father: THOMAS
Mother: MARY ANN COOK
Registered at PERTH
#3596

So at some stage between 1895 and 1898, did Harry/Henry HULBERT decide he might like to be Thomas Hulbert HOFFMAN instead, or is he a different person?   

The tree I mentioned above says that Mary Ann's husband Thomas WHARMBY died in 1884 (the year after they married), but if this is true then why didn't she marry Thomas?  The plot thickens. 

Debra 

[giblet]

The tree I mentioned above says that Mary Ann's husband Thomas WHARMBY died in 1884 (the year after they married), but if this is true then why didn't she marry Thomas?  The plot thickens. 

Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
Monday, May 05, 1884

WHARMBY - On the 2nd inst. very suddenly at Bessemer Hotel, Gorton, Thomas, son of the late James Wharmby, aged 28 years.

[giblet]

So at some stage between 1895 and 1898, did Harry/Henry HULBERT decide he might like to be Thomas Hulbert HOFFMAN instead, or is he a different person?   

I reckon his the same person. HULBERT isnt a common name, a bit to coincidental both fellas having the name.
Maybe he was married already in the UK which could be why he and Mary Ann never married.
As for the name change between 1895 and 1898 makes me wonder what he got up to.

[sparrett]

So at some stage between 1895 and 1898, did Harry/Henry HULBERT decide he might like to be Thomas Hulbert HOFFMAN instead, or is he a different person?   

I reckon his the same person. HULBERT isnt a common name, a bit to coincidental both fellas having the name.
Maybe he was married already in the UK which could be why he and Mary Ann never married.
As for the name change between 1895 and 1898 makes me wonder what he got up to.

On the other hand

As a surname HULBERT is not uncommon.
Just as an example, here is one Henry HULBERT who married in NSW in the right time frame-

5494/1895  HULBERT Henry J
GRACE Catherine M
At KEMPSEY

They stayed in the region together.

Debra, On your NSW arrival finding, is the implication as you see it, that Mrs WHARMBY is the wife of HULBERT,( mechanic)? I m not sure how to read it.

Sue

[Dundee]

Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
Monday, May 05, 1884

WHARMBY - On the 2nd inst. very suddenly at Bessemer Hotel, Gorton, Thomas, son of the late James Wharmby, aged 28 years.

Thanks for that, yes that is him as he was with his widowed mother at the Bessemer Hotel in 1881.  Mary Ann was probably doing her barmaiding there.

Debra, On your NSW arrival finding, is the implication as you see it, that Mrs WHARMBY is the wife of HULBERT,( mechanic)? I m not sure how to read it.

Sue

'Wife' is her description - not necessarily HULBERT's wife but just 'somebody's', i.e. no occupation.  If you look down the list there are others listed as 'wife' with no accompanying husband.
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1889/12/media/118ori4.gif

Debra 

[Dundee]

The thing is that Thomas didn't use the name 'Hulbert' himself.  He is listed once in 1903 on the WA electoral roll as just Thomas and also just Thomas when Phoebe was born.  I am always suspicious when people suddenly gain extra names when they are deceased.  I wonder who was giving the information when he died.

On the 1903 electoral roll Thomas is a hairdresser and there are a number of mentions on Trove about his Paris Hairdressing Saloon in Victoria Park - firstly at Pier and Howick Streets (I think Pier might have been renamed Gallipoli Street  ) and then next to the Broken Hill Hotel (still there, very nice).

I can only see mentions from 1894 in WA, but before that there is a T. HOFFMAN (Sands Directory confirms T to be 'Thomas') working as a hairdresser in King Street, Newtown, Sydney.  He sells up in March 1894 as he is leaving the colony of NSW.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13945818

Debra 

[sparrett]

Hairdresser in July 1894 in WA

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3064752

Sue