c1830-1890 Purtell/Purtill family including teachers in Cahir

[hallmark]

1901 census..  http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ir2/

[kob3203]

Thanks Geoff, great to hear that the original Cahir RC parish registers are finally on line !

Here's the National Library of Ireland link for the Cahir RC parish registers for anybody else who wants a looksee - http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1097 . 

Even better to hear that you think Judith Sweeney is actually a mistranscription. I've had a quick look and found our Ellen's 1869 birth record. I'll double check the Mary and John records soon to confirm what you've said.

I've also sent an email to my other Purtell contact and hopefully she'll be posting here soon.

[kob3203]

Hello again Geoff. Regarding the online Cahir RC Baptism registers I've double-checked the IFHS ones I had for Mary (7 Apr 1867) and John (17 Jun 1872). The IFHS and LDS versions definitely seem to have some differences, and not just with the mother's first name. So maybe the IFHS/LDS records are from civil birth records, not RC baptism registers?

Reference: Microfilm 02460 / 01 : Baptisms 1 Jan 1845 to 28 Dec 1880,p146 and p170
(the 2nd from bottom set of microfilm here http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1097 ,210 pages).

About halfway down p146 (Mar 1867 to May 1867) http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632137#page/146/mode/1up is what appears to be Mary's record. The date is 10th (not 7th) and the name is Mariam (not Mary), parents appear to be Edmund Purtill and Johanna (definitely not Judith) Sweeney address Market St. Here's my reading of the line (bits are very feint and hard to see):
10 (Apr 1867), Mariam, Edmond Purtil et Johanna Sweeny, Market St, et Ellena ,

The very bottom of p170 (Apr 1872 to June 1872) http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632137#page/170/mode/1up is badly scanned and I can't see date or child's name, but I'm fairly sure that the very last line gives parents Edmund Purtill + Johanna Sweeney address Market St (not Wellington St). Here's my reading of that last line (note: I just increased the contrast and the child's name jumped out as Thomas, but I'm not sure that's right:
, Thomas, Edmundum Purtill et Johanna Sweeney, Market St, Thomas Hippoll et ,

Second entry on p135 (Sep 1864 to Nov 1864) http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632137#page/135/mode/1up appears to be the Edmund Purtell (31Aug 1864) from IFHS/LDS. Here's how I read that entry:
4 (Sep 1864), Edmundum Purtell, Edmund et Joanna Sweeny, Market St, Michael Glace et Ellen Sullivan,M Macey

Two thirds down p156 (Apr 1869 to Jul 1869) http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632137#page/156/mode/1up , a couple of lines above the crossed out one seems to be Ellen (1Jun 1869) from the IFHS record:
6 (Jun 1869),Ellenam, edmund Purtell et Johanna Sweeney, Market St, Larbo Harries et Hanna Linan,R Cnixerferth
(obviously the sponsors' and clergyman's names are misread on my part, but that's the best I can do)

I recall reading somewhere that the RC clergy liked recording things in Latin and they often slung an '-um' onto the end of the child's name. So the 'Mariam' was probably actually just Mary

I've started a new topic on the Handwriting Deciphering forum to try and get the best reading of these lines - Cahir RC Parish Records - 5 Baptism records I'm trying to read

[kob3203]

Hallmark - Thanks for the link to those census search results - some of those may be related. But my accomplice looked into the Edmund Purtill = Johanna Sweeney family far deeper than I did. Back in April last year she sent me additional information that I never incorporated into my records. I've just rechecked and there were three records that she sent me:

1) William Purtell b 17 Jun 1874, Caher
This was a new sibling for Ellen and looks almost 100% certain - William Purtell b 17 Jun 1874, Caher, parents Edmund Purtell + Johanna Sweeney - LDS record here https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5DX-BFN

From this new sibling she managed to find the following 1901 and 1911 census records. The ages don't match across the two census results, and I'm hoping that she'll post to this thread (I've already had an email reply from her that Geoff's information sounds promising)

2) 1901 census: 31 in Market Street (Caher, Tipperary)
Edmond Purtell, 50 (head)
Johanna Purtell 50 (wife)
William Purtell 21 (son)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Caher/Market_Street/1708292/

3) 1911 census: 1 in Market Street (Caher, Tipperary)
Edmond Purtill 80 (head)
William Purtill 38 (son)
Mary Purtill 30 (daughter-in-law)
Edmond Purtill 5 (grandson)
Johanna Purtill 3 (granddaughter)
Mary Purtill 10mth (granddaughter)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Caher/Market_Street/813311/

[kob3203]

And I think I've just found William in the online RC registers:

Reference: Microfilm 02460 / 01 : Baptisms 1 Jan 1845 to 28 Dec 1880 (the 2nd from bottom set of microfilm here http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1097 ).
Entry about a third of the way down p181 (Jun 1874 - Sep 1874) here http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632137#page/181/mode/1up appears to be William (17 Jun 1874)
19 (June 1874), Giuliulums, Edward Purtil et Johanna Sweeny, Market St Cahir, Jacobus O'Laughlan et Ellena Dwyer, G Burke

I've started a new topic on the Handwriting Deciphering forum to try and get the best reading of this line and the others - Cahir RC Parish Records - 5 Baptism records I'm trying to read

[heywood]

Hello,

Just to say that I have seen Judith used with Joanna and other variations. Latin church records may show Joanna (m) but the child may be Jane.
I was searching for quite some time for Julia. Eventually, with the availability of records, I see she was registered and baptised as Johanna.

You seem to be doing really well with your research. 

Heywood

[kob3203]

Hi,
I was searching for info for a lady in Australia, turns out we are related, I though we were some years ago, but I had to confirm it.
Anyway......
In my searching I kept seeing an Alexander Going in Cahir.
I thought where have I heard that name before.
I got a reply via this post and I thought I must look into this.
Alexander Going was a Mill owner / Corn Merchant. Died in 1903.
He had a son Alexander. and a daughter Georgina.
Just thought I would let you all know.
Maggsie

Hi Maggsie.

That rings a bell. I recall doing some research when this letter first came to light, and finding that Alexander Going was a wealthy landowner who had a son, also Alexander Going, who served in the army - I think he died in service? But I never filed any of that information in an organized way. I'll have to check my email, hard drive, backups, etc.

We're now 99% certain that our Edmond Purtell (my great grandmother Ellen Purtell's father) was an illiterate labourer, and still alive at both the 1901 and 1911 census, so this letter and the teachers are of purely academic interest (pun intended!). But some day a descendant of the teachers may come across this topic... 

[kob3203]

BACK TO THAT LETTER IN THE FIRST POST - WE'VE FOUND HER

I've just come across the civil marriage record for another Ellen Purtill in Clogheen in 1885. And her father is Edmond Purtill, TEACHER.

So the descendants of this Ellen Purtell will be Twohill's.

Here's the URL for the civil marriage record https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/aa9ba87755452 (N.B. you'll need to jump through a couple of hoops to get to the page), and here's a summary:

Date: 24 Jan 1885

Name: Michael Twohill
Age: Full
Condition: Bachelor
Profession: Tradesman
Residence: Church St
Father: Thomas Twohill
Fathers profession: Labourer

Name: Ellen Purtill
Age: Do
Condition: Spinster
Profession: Do
Residence: Abbey
Father: Edmond Purtill
Fathers profession: Teacher

[merrick7]

Hi Pete
There are two Purtil graves in St. Mary's graveyard in Cahir . They are side by side .

1.
This headstone placed here by
Mrs. Ebworth of St. Kilda
Australia
In memory of her grandfather
Mr. Michael Purtil who is still
living and in the 83rd yr of his age
and at his demise will make
this his last resting place
and his wife Catherine Purtil
who died in 1885 age 60 years
and 2 of their children who
died young
and his brother
Mr. Edmond Purtil who died
1887 aged 80 years
Erected 1889

2.
Erected by Edmond Purtil of Cahir
as the last sad tribute of duty and
affection to his virtuous mother
Mary Purtil alias O' Dwyer
of the ancient Milesian stock of
Cilnamanac who departed this life
Invoking the assistance of the
Mother of God Dec r 18th 1846 aged 88
Catholic reader pray for her

P J