Author Topic: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)  (Read 19407 times)

Offline richarde1979

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Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« on: Thursday 19 March 15 15:47 GMT (UK) »
William Smith, son of Aaron Smith 'Hawker' and Cordelia privately baptised at Mitcham, Surrey on 3rd August 1860.
George Smith son of Aaron Smith 'Gipsey' and Cordelia privately baptised at St Andrew, Ham, Surrey on 20th February 1863.
Sampson Smith, son of Aaron Smith 'Tinman' and Cordlelia, baptised at West Croydon, Surrey on 7th May 1865.
Edward Cooper, son of Aaron Cooper 'Tinman' and Cordelia baptised at Esher, Surrey 28th July 1867
Henrietta Smith, daughter of Aaron Smith 'Brazier' and Cordelia. born 26th December 1869, baptised 16th January 1870 Croydon, Surrey,
Thomas Smith, son of Aaron Smith and Cordelia 'Travellers' baptised at Loncross, Surrey on 16th June 1872 (*Note: This was a joint baptism with Joseph Smith, son of Jonathan Smith and Martha 'Travellers'.)
Jessie Smith, son of Aaron Smith 'Tinman' and Cordelia baptised at West Croydon, Surrey in 20th October 1878.
Delilah Smith, daughter of Aaron Smith 'Tin Maker and Brazier' and Cordelia baptised at Shepperton, Middlesex on 28th AUgust 1881

I am researching the above couple. I have them on the 1871 Census and the 1911:

1871 Census Surmans Lane, Hampton, Kingston, Surrey (*next to Job Parker, 28, Chair maker  and wife Lementaney Carey, 22)
Aron Smith, 35, Chair maker, born Lemminge, Berks
Cordelia Smith, 30, wife, born Greenwich, Surrey
William Smith, 16, son assists his father, Mitcham, Surrey
George Smith, 8, son, Croydon, Surrey
Samuel Smith, 6, son, Croydon, Surrey
Edward Smith, 4, son Esher, Surrey
Harriet Smith, 1, dau, Croydon, Surrey

1911 Census Broad Lane, Walton on Thames, Surrey (*next to Albert Sines, 48 greengrocer and wife Dinah Sines, 45 )

Aron Smith, Head, 76 , grinder {Own account}, born Sonning, Berks,
Kodallea Smith, Wife, 74 [married 54 years, 16 children, 6 alive, 10 dead] born Ham Green, Surrey.
Ernest Smith, gson, 12, born Thame, Oxfordshire
Edward Brown, Lodger, 29, Labourer, born Surrey.

Marriage Cert: Aaron Smith, 74, Bachelor, Scissors Grinder, of Broad Lane, Walton on Thames, son of John Smith [deceased] Scissors Grinder,  and Cordelia Cooper, 73, Spinster, Hawker, of Broad Lane, Walton on Thames, daughter of Edward Cooper [deceased] hawker married at St Mary's, Walton on Thames by banns 30th November 1908, both made mark in register, witnessed by John Sines and Dinah Sines

I am having trouble finding them on any other censuses or tracing them back further, particularly Aaron. The South Bucks Free Press 18th June 1859 reports that Tubal Ancoru Smith and Aaron Smith, (gipsies) were charged by Sergeant Osborne, with encamping on a highway in the parish of Chesham, on the 10th inst and were discharged on promising not to offfend again.

This may be Aaron, husband of Cordelia Cooper, but certainly he wasn't the only Gypsy Aaron Smith then knocking about i.e:

Aaron Smith and Alice Smith Travellers’ married at Hillmorton, Warwickshire July 1804

Aaron Smith, son of Arthur Smith and Karnation [Lee] ‘Travellers’, born 22nd June, baptised at Ropley Hampshire 29th June 1807.

Aaron Smith
, son of Cain Smith and Trinity [Smith]baptised at Rushton, Northampton on 25th December 1814.

I can find no further info on Tubal Ancora Smith either, but suspect there might be a link somewhere there with Johnny Ancorn Smith as per Eric Trudgill and Anne-Marie Ford's website http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=11

Any help identifying Aaron's family links further much appreciated

Richard
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 19 March 15 15:53 GMT (UK) »
 In addition to above I think this is probably his brothers Jonathan and Jessie Smith:

1871 Census Market Place, Wokingham, Berkshire
Jonathan Smith, 56, Travelling innkeeper and Grinder, born in Dummer, Hampshire
Martha Smith, 42, wife, Travelling Pedlar, born Colnbroook, Buckinghamshire
Carnation Smith, 15, daughter, Travelling Pedlar, born Hale, Surrey
Jehanna Smith, 11, daughter, Tramp, born Sherfield, Hampshire
Brittania Smith, 9, daughter, Tramp, born Greywell, Hampshire
Arthur Smith, 8, son, Travelling Pedlar, born Greywell, Hampshire
Siberana Smith, 3, daughter, Tramp, born Bramley, Hampshire
Joseph Smith, 6 months, born Odiham, Hampshire
Jesse Smith, 54, brother, Travelling tinker and Chair Bottomer, born  Harwell, Berkshire
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #2 on: Friday 20 March 15 11:47 GMT (UK) »
Update on this I think Tubal Ancora Smith is actually Jubal Smith, born 1814 in Wiltshire son of Johnny Ancorn Smith and Agrippina Smith:

Jubal Smith, son of Gripy Smith, baptised at Wroughton, Wiltshire 13th July 1814

1861 Bristol, Gloucestershire
Jubal Smith, 47, Hawker, born Wranton, Wiltshire
Mary Smith, 43, wife, born Fredenton, Warwickshire
Abina Smith, 12, son born Sodmarton, Oxfordshire
Alfred Smith, 18, son born Shipton, Oxfordshire
Hannah Smith,14, dau, born High Littleton, Somerset
Jesse Smith, 2, son, Broadway, Staffordshire
Sophia Smith, 7, daugh, Netherton, Staffordshire

22 August 1883: Marion Jane Smith, wife of Jubal Smith, grinder, no home, Charged with being drunk  at Warwickshire.

I'm now inclined to think the Aaron Smith arrested with him at Chesham in 1859 is the same man I am researching,  because of the repetition of the name Jesse as a male name in both families. The obvious assumption would be that John Smith, scissor grinder, who Aaron names on his marriage as father is Johnny Ancorn Smith, and he and Jubal are brothers, but there is a good twenty years or more between their births, so I am not altogether convinced.


To complicate further, there is a John Smith and Priscilla James baptising children around the right time to be Aaron, Jonathan and Jesse's parents and in the right counties Berkshire and Hampshire:

Mary Smith, 'Born in the lane', daughter of John Smith 'Traveller' and Priscilla baptised 14th Janaury 1824 at Arborfield Berkshire

Eliza Smith, daughter of  John Smith & Priscilla James 'Travellers' baptised at Stratfield Saye, Hampshire    on 18th November 1832.

Rhoda Anne Smith, daughter of John Smith and  Priscilla 'Travellers' baptised at Finchampstead, Berkshire on 27th July 1834.      

Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London


Offline Lelu

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Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #3 on: Monday 23 March 15 15:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi through my research I have come across an Edward & Henrietta Cooper who appear in the 1871 census at Pawsons Rd Croydon Edward is 63 & Henrietta 60 both basketmakers they are visiting a Joseph Smith & his family.  They also turn up on Mitcham Common in 1881 I wondedered whether they could be Cordelias parents?

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #4 on: Monday 23 March 15 16:23 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Lelu, very helpful, it looks like you are on the money there, as using your info I have been able to find Cordelia's baptism

Cordelia Cooper, aged 17, daughter of Werdon and Henrietta Cooper 'Gipsy' baptised 2nd June 1858 St Andrew, Ham, Surrey

jointly baptised with:

Josiah Smith, age 22, son of Werdon and Henrietta Smith 'Gipsy'

A day earlier 1st June 1858 four children were baptised there together to Gypsy couples including:

Cinderella Cooper
, born 16th July 1852, daughter of Edward and Henrietta Cooper 'Gipsy'

Looks like all three are the same couple, and this points towards Henrietta being a Smith, so Cordelia's marriage with Aaron Smith might have been a cousin pairing.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline Searcher1998

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Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 30 April 15 10:25 BST (UK) »
Hello Richard, your greengrocers, Albert and Dinah Sines, of Broad lane Walton on Thames in Surrey, are my great great grandparents. Their youngest daughter, Cordelia, was my great granny. She married a Jimmy Brazil from Walton on Thames (field common) my great granny was born on the 15th of Febuary 1908.

Cordelia and Jimmy Brazil had 7 children, only one is still alive. His name is Albert Brazil, he was a twin but his twin (billy) died at birth and is buried in Teddington cemetery, as are my great granny Cordelia and 5 of her children, one of them being my granny June.

It would be great if you could give me anymore information about Dinah and Albert Sines. I know Dinah was a Rawlings before she married and her mothers name was Esther.
 

Many thanks!!!!!!!

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 30 April 15 11:14 BST (UK) »
Hello Searcher 1998 great to find someone else linked to the same set of families. My interest is through Job Parker and Lemontany Carey, and their relatives Burdens, Howards, Whites, Ayres who lived around Walton on Thames in the early 20th century. I'm sure they and the Sines all link up to these Cooper and Smiths somehow but still trying to untangle exact details on that!
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline Searcher1998

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Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 30 April 15 13:56 BST (UK) »
I know they are related to the Coopers somewhere along the line but I'm not sure.
My uncle has done an extensive search and knows more than me. I'm still waiting on more from him.
Have you got any old photos?

Offline Searcher1998

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Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 02 May 15 18:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Richard, my uncle told me that Ruthy Sines (my great granny's sister) married a George Parker from that same area. Broad road/lane. Walton upon Thames.

My great grannys siblings were: Mary, Priscilla, Rosie, Ruthy, Arthur, Jobie, and "Cocker"? (Not sure of Cockers real name) and I think out of the boys only Arthur ever married, but I don't know who to. There was also another brother (John) but he died either at birth or not long after.

Rosie married Henry Ripley, Mary married Mark Sines (a cousin), Cordelia, my great granny, married James Brazil, and Priscilla married Walter Honeyball.


Your Albert Sines (my great great grandfather), had brothers called, Samuel, Benjamin, John and James. Samuel Sines is buried with Albert and Dinah Sines at Walton upon Thames. As far as I know he had a son and a daughter, Samuel and Esther. Samuel Snr lived at Chertsey near St Peters Hospital with his wife and children until his wife passed away and he moved back to Molsey with his children. He passed away at the age of 58.

You have my great great granny Dinah Sines and her brother in law John Sines as witnesses at the wedding of an Aaron Smith.

Other names of interest are: Rawlins (not sure about the spelling)
Hughs, Ball, Darby, Williams, Hunt and Jones.