Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)

[LambFran]

Hi
I was reading through your posts and noticed this:

"I know Job Parker's mother was not a Cooper or a Smith, but an Alford. Also his relationship with Lemantaney Carey began around 1868, when both were 19, and he is only linked to the Coopers after that date. Lemantaney was born on 6th August 1849 at Stanwell, Middlesex. Baptised at St Mary's, Colnbrook, Buckinghamshire, 13 days old on 19 Aug 1849. Her father was Thomas Carey (born 5th November 1811, Hawridge, Buckinghamshire). All I know of her mother is she was called Caroline, and was probably born circa 1814. She died not long after Lemontaney's birth. Could she be the Cooper link? If anyone can help identify her maiden name or the marriage if there is one to Thomas Carey, would be much appreciated"

Apologies if you have already discovered the information, I know I am a bit late reading this thread.

Thomas & Caroline are my 3x great grandparents. Caroline was a Pateman.
I believe Thomas & Caroline had the following children:
Golias born: 1834 Denham, Bucks.
Thomas born: 1837 Caversham, Berks/Ox.
Alice born: 1840 Pangbourne, Berks.
John born: 1843 Kent
Lemontancy born: 1849 Stanwell, Middx.

Alice born in 1840 had a relationship with George Lamb.
Alice Carey & George Lamb had three children all baptised as Lambs: Albert 1859, John 1862 and William 1865.
Alice died in October 1865, her death certificate names her as Alice Carey daughter of Thomas Carey but George Lamb was the informant and present at her death.
John Lamb is later recorded on the 1871 Census with George Lamb's parents, Isaac & Elizabeth Lamb and named as their grandson.
William is later recorded on the 1881 Census with Thomas Carey, widower, named as William Carey, grandson. William goes on to use the Carey surname when he marries Ellen Rose in 1895 and they are recorded using the Carey surname on the 1901 Census but switch back to Lamb by 1911.
I believe Caroline may have died in 1850 Wycombe, Bucks but I have yet to obtain this death certificate to confirm this is correct.

I hope this isn't too much extended family information but just thought I'd let you know Caroline's name if you hadn't already discovered it plus the connection.
It was your search for Aaron Smith that caught my attention as I too am looking for an Aaron Smith but the one I am looking for was born earlier around 1784.

[astral14]

I have figured out the Ruth Sines  connection though. Her husband George was the son of Frederick Parker born 1851 at Colnbrook, Bucks. Fred was Job's younger cousin, their fathers Mark Parker (1819-1866)and John Parker  (b.1822 circa) were brothers. Job's wife Lemontaney Carey was also baptised at Colnbrook in 1849. A lot of the family still live round that way today. These families seems to have travelled regularly from that area in Berkshire to Surrey and back again. Again maybe because of the link to the Coopers, there seems to have been a lot of Coopers based around Windsor.

You are right that they are cousins but I don't think you have the connection quite right - they are a little more removed. The Sines often travelled with the Harris family who are also linked to the Ayres, Carey families. The family also mentioned a Cooper link but, like you, I am struggling. I have loads of these people on my tree in Ancestry.

[richarde1979]

Hello astral14

By cousins I was referring to Job and Fred Parker, who were first cousins, their fathers Mark and John being brothers. Job and Lemontaney are my niece's 3x great grandparents. They travelled with Coopers around Walton, Epsom, Berkshire etc. Best regards, Richard

                           Mark Parker SENIOR
          |                                                  |
Mark Parker 1819-1866                  John Parker 1822
          |                                                  |
Fred Parker 1851                          Job Parker  m.Lemontaney Carey
          |
George Parker m. Ruth Sines

[astral14]

Lemontanay is a 1st cousin 4x removed of my children.

[richarde1979]

Really, that is interesting astral.

I have Lemontaney as the youngest child of Thomas Carey and Caroline Pateman. She was named for her aunt Lamatina, and born on 6th August 1849, in the village of Stanwell, Middlesex. The birth cert is registered as Clementina Carey, but she was baptised as Lemontaney Carey, at thirteen days of age, at St Mary's Church in Colnbrook, Buckinghamshire, on 19th August 1849. She later partnered Job Parker, son of John Parker and Selina Halford/Alford, and appears recorded variously as 'Lemio' (Apr 1871) 'Lamantana' (July 1871) 'Lamtannay' (Apr 1881) 'Clementina' (Oct 1884) and 'Lemington' (Apr 1901). In April 1911 as Clemintina Parker, she is recorded with Job, in a tent on Horsley Common, Surrey, stopping with Coopers, Marneys, Junixs, Vinsons, Deacons and Gobys. Her death, in a caravan at West End, Esher, Surrey, in August 1920, was registered as Lamentany Parker, the sixty-eight-year-old wife of Job Parker, a ‘Licensed Pedlar’.

I know she had an older brother John Carey, who married Rebecca Harris, in August 1863, at Epsom, Surrey, with Matilda Parker as a witness. Is that the link?

[astral14]

Lemontanay's father Thomas was the brother of Levi (Richard) Carey. Levi was the father of Anna Maria Carey who married George Harris - in our direct line.
I have not connected the John Harris m to Harriet - father of Rebecca but he has to be connected!

[richarde1979]

Oh I am with you now astral, yes I think Levi probably travelled with Thomas as his son Levi, junior was baptised at Iver, Buckinghamshire, in 1852, which is just up the road from Colnbrook where Lamentany was baptised a few years earlier. I have Levi, junior, also marrying into the Harris family, a Mary Ann Harris, on 17th July 1882 at Addlestone, Surrey, and the couple appear ‘in huts and tents’ stopped in a lane at Orpinton, Kent, on the 1901 census.

[Adam Haase]

Hi Charmaine.

I have downloaded the marriage certificate for Ruth and George. 23rd June 1919 at East Molesey, Surrey. He is down as 24 a private in the army, father Frederick Parker, Dealer. Ruth is down as 21, father Albert Sines, Dealer, (deceased).

I'll have to look and see if Fred links up to Job Parker and Lemontaney Carey. They had ten children I know of born over twenty five years 1869-1894, two sons, eight daughters, but I don't think they had a Fred.

I have been looking into the Brazils though, and it looks as if George Brazil and William Brazil who married Violet Burden  and Matilda Sayers (1st cousins,  grandaughters of Job and Lemontany) were both brothers of your great grandfather James Brazil who married Cordelia Sines. Their parents were William Brazil and Charlotte Bury.

The Brazils can bet traced  well back to the 1750s as travellers. The Sines I'm having more of a struggle with tracking back, but will keep looking:

James Brazil (1905-1983)+Cordelia Sines (1908-1988) married 1929 Surrey
|
William Brazil (1881-1964)+ Charlotte Bury  (1880-1956)
|
Matthew Brazil (1845-1919) licensed hawker +Selina Collins (1848-1894)
|
John Brazil (1819-1883) a tinman and travelling hawker + Priscilla Harlet (1818-)
|
William Brazil, (1795-1871) a  travelling mat maker and chair turner, +Jane (c.1786-1869)
born Penshurst, Kent
|
John Brazil (1768) traveller + Hannah Jones married 1788 Herstmonceaux, Sussex
born Penshurst, Kent
|
William Brazil traveller (c.1745) and Ann

William and Jane Brazil are on the 1841 census camped with two elderly Jones and Smith women who must be relatives of some sort I'd think.

Not sure if this thread still has interest to some but, doing my family tree, I've managed to trace one strand of my lineage back to John Brazil and Priscilla Harlet.

Through discussions with my grandmother and other relo's, I've found I have quite deep Gypsy roots and these Brazil's, as well as Hoadley's, go back to at least Sampson/Samson (1844-1906) and his wife Matilda (nee Parker, 1845-1919.)

I am well aware of their travelling exploits which meant that censuses would've been a pain as the conductors of each census wouldn't've been able to keep track of them due to not being in the one spot.

John and Priscilla were a pair of my 4xGreat-grandparents.

As this is my first post, I'm interested in knowing more about the Hoadley's, Brazil's, Parker's and Harlet's.

[panished]

Friday 22 January 1875
  Western Daily Press
    Bristol

Nelson Talbot and Albina Smith, said to be gipsies, were charged with fighting at St. George's, on Sunday afternoon. Talbot did not appear.  defendants were fighting at about three o'clock on Sunday afternoon, and a crowd of 300 or so people were watching the men, who were stripped for the fight. Smith was bound over to keep the peace for six months, and warrant was issued for the apprehension of Talbot

Update on this I think Tubal Ancora Smith is actually Jubal Smith, born 1814 in Wiltshire son of Johnny Ancorn Smith and Agrippina Smith:

Jubal Smith, son of Gripy Smith, baptised at Wroughton, Wiltshire 13th July 1814

1861 Bristol, Gloucestershire
Jubal Smith, 47, Hawker, born Wranton, Wiltshire
Mary Smith, 43, wife, born Fredenton, Warwickshire
Abina Smith, 12, son born Sodmarton, Oxfordshire
Alfred Smith, 18, son born Shipton, Oxfordshire
Hannah Smith,14, dau, born High Littleton, Somerset
Jesse Smith, 2, son, Broadway, Staffordshire
Sophia Smith, 7, daugh, Netherton, Staffordshire

22 August 1883: Marion Jane Smith, wife of Jubal Smith, grinder, no home, Charged with being drunk  at Warwickshire.

I'm now inclined to think the Aaron Smith arrested with him at Chesham in 1859 is the same man I am researching,  because of the repetition of the name Jesse as a male name in both families. The obvious assumption would be that John Smith, scissor grinder, who Aaron names on his marriage as father is Johnny Ancorn Smith, and he and Jubal are brothers, but there is a good twenty years or more between their births, so I am not altogether convinced.


To complicate further, there is a John Smith and Priscilla James baptising children around the right time to be Aaron, Jonathan and Jesse's parents and in the right counties Berkshire and Hampshire:

Mary Smith, 'Born in the lane', daughter of John Smith 'Traveller' and Priscilla baptised 14th Janaury 1824 at Arborfield Berkshire

Eliza Smith, daughter of  John Smith & Priscilla James 'Travellers' baptised at Stratfield Saye, Hampshire    on 18th November 1832.

Rhoda Anne Smith, daughter of John Smith and  Priscilla 'Travellers' baptised at Finchampstead, Berkshire on 27th July 1834.