First time

[Julia Dorothy]

Hi This is my first time and I am not sure if I am doing this correctly or where I should post my question as I would like some help in finding some ancestors of the Debnam family for my cousin on his father's side.  As far as I know the family lived in Poplar London.  I have information on my cousins grandparents; Richard DEBNAM born 1887 in Poplar London married Annie Edith Nicholls in 1909.  They had a son Richard DEBNAM born 1910(my cousins father) and a daughter Edith DEBNAM born 1911.  I have found two families of similar to Richard DEBNAM born 1887 that could be his family; this is where I am not sure and cannot bridge the gap.  The first family: George DEBNAM born 1823 in Sydenham, Kent his siblings William DEBNAM born 1827 Sydenham Kent and Mary DEBNAM born 1835 Lambeth, Surry, London.  No mention of parents for these siblings.
I found that George DEBNAM born 1823 married Sarah Ann TURNER about 1858 in Bethnal Green. Sarah from Peckham Surrey. London.  George and Sarah had two sons: Richard DEBNAM born 1844 and George DEBNAM born 1848.  I am not sure who is the father of Richard DEBNAM born 1887 in Poplar London?  I also found in the 1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription that a George DEBNAM born 1823 aged 38 a labourer from Kent, England along with his wife Sarah DEBNAM born 1826 aged 35 from Horsham, Surrey.  Their children: Richard aged 16 born 1845, George age 10 born 1851 and Samuel age 10 born 1851 (George and Samuel twins) all from Horsham Surrey and Charles age 3 born 1858 Hampshire and an infant son born 1861 Deptford, Kent. I have looked though all the possible links trying to match this family and wonder if anyone out there could help in pointing my into the right direction where I could research further or, if anyone may know or be working on this family.  You input would be most appreciated. Thankyou. Julia Dorothy.

[LizzieW]

Where did you get the information you have?  Have you got the birth certificates of your cousins' grandparents that would give you their parents names, and from that you could then look at the earlier census to work out which family is which.

[pinefamily]

As Lizzie has rightfully said, you need to get a birth or marriage certificate to at least get a father's name. Alternatively, have you tried to locate Richard in either the 1901 or 1891 census?

[pinefamily]

I don't have access to ancestry or FindMyPast, but a quick look on the 1901 census site shows no Richard Debnam. Doing a search for a Richard b. c.1887 in Poplar does show a Richard "Wenman" as the most likely mistranscription. Hopefully this can be confirmed or ruled out by someone else.

Edit: I also did a quick search on freebmd, but found no Richard Debnam born in 1887, anywhere. Has his age been calculated from the marriage certificate?

[crisane]

Welcome to Rootschat 
1901 RG13 piece 1594 folio 153 page 7
there are what could be 3 brothers, inmates  in the Forest Gate District School, West Ham, Essex
Richard Debnam 14, Henry 13 and William 10. Birth places unknown and when I look on FreeBMD for a birth of a Richard 1885 - 1888 in all of UK none show up. I wonder if Richard adopted the birth place close to his wife's?

[crisane]

These could be the brothers I found in the 1901 census in the institution but with Richard as a Charles R. I can't find a birth reg for a Charles R but ther is one for a Charles, no middle initial but it is in Essex which is where the three boys were in 1901.
Sept 1/4 1888 Saffron W (Essex) vol 4a page 597
 
1891  RG12 piece 408 folio 71 page 19
Lambeth
Henry Debnam  30 Fruiterer and grocer Bristow Surrey
Maria Debnam  33 Notting Hill 
George H Debnam  9
Elizabeth M Debnam  6
Charles R Debnam  4
Henry Debnam  2  Lambeth, Surrey
William J Debnam  2 months 
Maria Clare  13

All children born Lambeth

Need to see if the parents are around in 1901.

There is the death of a Henry George Debnam age 36 in June 1/4 1897 reg dist Poplar

All this needs to be checked out and has been said Richard's marriage cert may provide the answer.

[pinefamily]

You could be on the right track, Crisane. The birth record for the son in 1909 is Richard Charles Debnam.

[crisane]

1901  Maria is with her eldest son George and other children but the 3 younger boys are missing

RG13/341/18/28
Maria Debnam  41 widow, occupation - Charring, born Notting Hill
George H Debnam  18 waiter restaurant Lambeth
Maud E Debnam  15 macintosh maker Lambeth
May N Debnam  7 Howerton?
Thomas Walker  37 Boarder cord cutter Bethnall Green


Thanks for the info re Richard's son pinefamily. It is looking very likely that this is the correct family isn't it?
I wonder if the boarder Thomas Walker became the second husband?

[crisane]

WE are not allowed to post details of the 1911 census but I can tell you that Maria is still a widow and Henry and William are back living with her and Maud and May. By this time of course Richard is married to Annie.