Author Topic: obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate  (Read 30349 times)

Offline timothygray

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate
« on: Saturday 04 April 15 08:31 BST (UK) »
Brick wall!
Father died about 5 years ago (born 1926). On deathbed said he was adopted (HUGE surprise!). Recent access to online Grandmother's will bears this out ('adopted son'), but not Grandfather's will ('son'). Because he was born before 1927, adoption records don't seem to be accessible. No living relatives from his known family as far as am aware. I have his short UK birth certificate but no clue as to place of birth. Am not interested in tracing birth-grandparents but would like to know for my familytree files if he really was adopted. Thought first place would be to get full birth certificate - but without birth place, proving very difficult. Is there any way of using the short certificate to find out where the birth was registered? Have tried the GRO but have so far (after 5 abortive certificates!) not been successful.

ANY help will be gratefully appreciated!

Offline sillgen

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,523
    • View Profile
Re: obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 04 April 15 08:57 BST (UK) »
Hi and welcome
Does it not show the registration district on the short certificate?   They may have changed over the years but I am sure that is shown on the ones I have for family members.   Maybe you can quote date of birth when applying for certificates so that may help avoid getting the wrong ones.

Offline andycand

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,384
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 04 April 15 09:01 BST (UK) »
Hi

Are you referring to England & Wales? My English short certificate has my name, DOB, and the Registration District and Sub District, this would normally enable you to identify his birth registration. Could he have been formally adopted after the Adoption Laws came into law?

Andy


Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,417
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 04 April 15 09:28 BST (UK) »
OH has a short-form birth certificate because he was formally adopted by his mother and step-father when they married in 1955, following his mother's divorce from OH's father.  There is no Registration District shown on the certificate - just name and surname, sex, date of birth and country of birth.

There are two references numbers shown on the short-form certificate (1955) - not sure if that might help to locate the original birth certificate.  Neither number coincides with any reference shown on his original, full certificate (1940).



Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY


Offline timothygray

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 04 April 15 12:57 BST (UK) »
Wow! First time on this site and a very impressive and amazingly quick set of replies!  Thanks everyone!!!

Not sure if this is done in this forum, but have posted the actual short certificate (name removed) - that may make suggestions easier.

Offline barryd

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,709
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 04 April 15 13:40 BST (UK) »
In 1926 if he was illegitimate the Index (I use Free BMD) would normally have the same name in the mother's maiden name section as his. If a John Smith was born in 1926 and his married mother's maiden name was Jones then the index shoud read

Smith John (mother's maiden name) Jones then registration area details.
If illegitimate it should read Smith John (mmn) Smith

If the father was married to a woman whose maiden name was Smith then that will be indexed as
Smith John (mmn) Smith.

Children do not have to be illegitimate to be adopted. Possibly both parents died?



Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,417
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 04 April 15 14:46 BST (UK) »
Other than the fact that "Country of Birth" does not appear on your certificate, then everything else is as it appears on OH's certificate.  The two reference numbers I was talking about, are the ones appearing top right and bottom left.  Perhaps those are the references required to link the original certificate to this short version.   :-\

Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline chempat

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,589
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 04 April 15 14:55 BST (UK) »
Do you know why that certificate was issued in 1948 for him?

With the information you have given, it is fairly easy to work out who your father is.

If he has been officially adopted, you will not be able to get the original long certificate.  And as he is no longer alive he cannot apply for any records (if there were records) as full formal adoption not in place.

Could you give us the names of your grandparents, or would you prefer not to?

Do you think he could have been the natural son of your grandmother, and then later adopted by both of them on their marriage?

Did he have any siblings, and where did you think he was born?

Thanks

Offline Alexander.

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,298
    • View Profile
Re: obtaining full UK birth certificate from UK short birth certificate
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 04 April 15 17:55 BST (UK) »
As you have the short certificate, there must be a long form of the certificate registered under the name that appears on this certificate, whether that is a standard birth certificate or an adoption certificate. As it appears you have been able to find no standard birth certificate, it is likely an adoption certificate (essentially a birth certificate in the adopted name). As you know the exact date of birth, you should be able to order the long form adoption certificate from the GRO, entering only the name after adoption and date of birth. If no matching record is found you will receive a full refund. Even though your father was born before 1927, if he was adopted after 1 Jan 1927 it is my understanding he will have an adoption certificate.

Alexander