Author Topic: Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?  (Read 4649 times)

Offline BevStimpson

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Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?
« on: Wednesday 15 April 15 16:56 BST (UK) »
Okay, I'll admit to being stuck, totally banging my head hard on a brick wall. To make matters worse, I listened to "distant" cousins" or descendants of my ancestors siblings, assuming they had (in a couple of instances they were correct) better info that I did.
WRONG. I seem to be at a crossroads - is this him/is that him...
Here's what I have and do know.
John Drain was born in (about) 1850, in (he says on the 1851 census, when he lived at  116, Southwick Road, Urr, Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland) Lanarkshire. He was a quarryman.
The address and his wife and children are correct as is his trade so it is definitely him on the census.
He married at the age of 21 to Margaret McTurk (I have the wedding certificate) he gives his job as Granite Polisher, and at the time of his marriage he was living in Shap, (again correct, since some of his children and one being my great granddad were born there). He gives his fatherís name as Andrew Drain, who was according to John on the marriage certificate an Engineer.
I haven't been able to find John's birth certificate, but do have his death certificate, he died on 20th December in paisley, Renfrewshire. Being a Scottish certificate it gives his fatherís name has John Drain - profession of father is masons labourer, no mothers name since his daughter did not know her grandmothers name. Incidentally, at the time of his death he is given as 74 years old.
So this is his family, as I stand at the moment:
John DRAIN - Birth: abt 1852 in Scotland, Death: 19 Dec 1924 Paisley Infirmary                                     
      Marriage: 28 Mar 1871    Penrith, Cumberland, England to                   
Margaret MCTURK - Birth: 28 Apr 1852    Quarry House, Lambley and Asholme, Haltwhistle, Northumberland, Death: 15 Oct 1889   116 Southwick Rd, Dalbeattie                                                       
Her Parents are: Father: James MCTURK (1824-1899) Mother: Mary Ann DIAMOND (1824-1871)
Their Children
Margaret DRAIN   Birth: abt 1871       Shap, Westmorland, England                             
Jane DRAIN      Birth: 24 Jan 1872    Shap, Westmorland, England                             
                Death: 4 Jul 1920     77 Queen St, Dumfries                                 
John DRAIN      Birth: abt 1874       Govan, Lanarkshire, Scotland                           
Jemima DRAIN      Birth: abt 1876       Shap, Westmorland, England                                                                           
James McTurk DRAIN   Birth: 17 Jan 1877    Shap, Westmorland, England               
                Death: 29 Mar 1915    Norwich, Norfolk, England                             
William DRAIN      Birth: abt 1878       Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland               
                Death: 1888           116 Southwick Rd, Dalbeattie                           
Elizabeth Carson DRAIN   Birth: 1 Sep 1880     115 Copland St, DALBEATTIE,
                Death: 1947           Presumed South Africa                                 
Mary Ann DRAIN   Birth: Aug 1882    Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire                                                             
                Death: 21 Nov 1885    Southwick Rd, Dalbeattie,             
William DRAIN       Birth: 1 Jul 1884     Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
                Death: 1 Jul 1884     Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Agnes DRAIN      Birth: 1885           Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
                Death: 1945           Presumed South Africa                                           
Female DRAIN      Birth: 16 Sep 1889    Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
                Death: 16 Sep 1889    Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Now, here's where I am totally lost.
I've been told by the distant cousins that John's father and grandfather were HENRY Drain from County Down Ireland. Henry is not a family name, and does not figure in any of the descendants of John. However, John does have a brother named William who is aged 17 on the census.
I found the census from 1851 Low Cunocktrie, Kirkmaiden, Wigtownshire, Scotland which says that the parents were William and Sarah both from Ireland, but their son William is 3, John was 1 year old, I also found the same family in 1861, where they also now have a 2 yr old son Henry.
On the other hand, searching for Andrew gave me Alan Drain born in Lanarkshire in about 1821.
Any thoughts anyone please, even if it's give up for now  ::)
BARLOW, BEARD, BRIDGWOOD. BROOMHEAD. BROTHERDALE, CLARKE, CRESSWELL. DIAMOND, DRAIN, GRAHAM, HALL, HEUCHAN, HOGDANE, HULL, JACKSON, KIRKPATRICK, LITTLE, McLELLAN, McTURK, MORRIS, NEEDS, OWEN, PARSONS, PRICE, PUGH, RATHBONE, ROBINSON, SCRUTON, SHAW, STAFFORD, TAYLOR, WATSON, WEIR, WILLIAMSON

Offline josey

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Re: Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 15 April 15 18:07 BST (UK) »
Nice, clear & thorough explanation Bev  :)  Might need some time to look for info, so be patient with us all!!

Advice will never be to 'give up'  - just consider John Drain's birth & parents to be on the back burner  ;D - and awaiting a little spark.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline josey

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Re: Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 15 April 15 18:18 BST (UK) »
I found the census from 1851 Low Cunocktrie, Kirkmaiden, Wigtownshire, Scotland which says that the parents were William and Sarah both from Ireland, but their son William is 3, John was 1 year old,
And according to the ancestry transcription, William was an ag lab.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline JMStrachan

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Re: Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 15 April 15 22:07 BST (UK) »
According to the 1881 census, John's brother William Drain (living with John at the time) was born in about 1864 at Pollockshaws, Lanarkshire which is the same birth place as given for John Drain. So William was born after official registration commenced in Scotland and his birth certificate will be available on ScotlandsPeople. ScotlandsPeople has a William Drain birth registered in Eastwood in 1861 which is the same part of south Glasgow as Pollockshaws. Age is 3 years out from age given in census but the census may have been mistranscribed - in any case, ages are often out by a few years on the census.

If I was you I'd buy some credits on ScotlandsPeople and download William's birth certificate as it will give the names of his parents plus other details. However, Ancestry has an index only entry for that birth: William Drain born 16 August 1861 registered at Eastwood, parents Henry Drain and Jane McLellan.
AYRSHIRE - Strachan, McCrae, Haddow, Haggerty, Neilson, Alexander
ABERDEENSHIRE (Cruden and Longside) - Fraser, Hay, Logan, Hutcheon or Hutchison, Sangster
YORKSHIRE (Worsbrough) - Green, Oxley, Firth, Cox, Rock
YORKSHIRE (Royston and Carlton) - Senior, Simpson, Roydhouse, Hattersley


Offline JMStrachan

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Re: Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 15 April 15 22:16 BST (UK) »
The William Drain ag lab in 1851 census in Wigtownshire, with wife Sarah and 4 children  can also be found in the later census:
1861 William Drain labourer in Pollockshaws, Renfrewshire with wife Sarah and 8 children
1871 William Drain whinstone miner in Pollockshaws, Renfrewshire with wife Sarah and 6 children.

However, their son John Drain is still with them in 1871, age 17 and a tailor, so cannot be the John Drain who is a labourer in Shap in 1871. Could well be related though.
AYRSHIRE - Strachan, McCrae, Haddow, Haggerty, Neilson, Alexander
ABERDEENSHIRE (Cruden and Longside) - Fraser, Hay, Logan, Hutcheon or Hutchison, Sangster
YORKSHIRE (Worsbrough) - Green, Oxley, Firth, Cox, Rock
YORKSHIRE (Royston and Carlton) - Senior, Simpson, Roydhouse, Hattersley

Offline BevStimpson

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Re: Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 15 April 15 23:27 BST (UK) »
If I was you I'd buy some credits on ScotlandsPeople and download William's birth certificate as it will give the names of his parents plus other details. However, Ancestry has an index only entry for that birth: William Drain born 16 August 1861 registered at Eastwood, parents Henry Drain and Jane McLellan.

I used my last 6 credits on Scotlands People and got the record. Fortunately (or not) there was only one William registered between 1860 and 1865, allowing for mistakes on the census records. I've attached it, and thank you everyone for helping, now to buy more credits to narrow down John Drain.
BARLOW, BEARD, BRIDGWOOD. BROOMHEAD. BROTHERDALE, CLARKE, CRESSWELL. DIAMOND, DRAIN, GRAHAM, HALL, HEUCHAN, HOGDANE, HULL, JACKSON, KIRKPATRICK, LITTLE, McLELLAN, McTURK, MORRIS, NEEDS, OWEN, PARSONS, PRICE, PUGH, RATHBONE, ROBINSON, SCRUTON, SHAW, STAFFORD, TAYLOR, WATSON, WEIR, WILLIAMSON

Offline BevStimpson

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Re: Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 15 April 15 23:49 BST (UK) »
Unfortunately Scotlands People isn't throwing up John's birth at all  :(

this is the nearest I can find for him, different parents though

15/04/1851   JOHN DRAIN   parents: JOHN DRAIN/SARAH MILLS  GLASGOW   GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK   
BARLOW, BEARD, BRIDGWOOD. BROOMHEAD. BROTHERDALE, CLARKE, CRESSWELL. DIAMOND, DRAIN, GRAHAM, HALL, HEUCHAN, HOGDANE, HULL, JACKSON, KIRKPATRICK, LITTLE, McLELLAN, McTURK, MORRIS, NEEDS, OWEN, PARSONS, PRICE, PUGH, RATHBONE, ROBINSON, SCRUTON, SHAW, STAFFORD, TAYLOR, WATSON, WEIR, WILLIAMSON

Offline jaybelnz

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Re: Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 16 April 15 05:48 BST (UK) »
I think this goes till the end of April  - 20 free credits



Go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Click "buy more credits"
Enter voucher code "scotlandnow" and click "use voucher"

Cheers
Jeanne :)
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Offline JMStrachan

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Re: Okay, I'll admit to being stuck - not sure which board to post this in?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 16 April 15 09:31 BST (UK) »
Unfortunately, John Drain was born before the start of official registration of births in Scotland so you are reliant on parish registers. These were no means complete, so it's quite possible John Drain's baptism wasn't recorded. And as the family were originally from Ireland, it's possible they weren't Church of Scotland.

You now know John's brother William was born in 1861 and his parents were Henry Drain mason's labourer and Jane McLellan who were living in Pollockshaws at the time. This looks like them in the 1861 census, very poorly transcribed by Ancestry. Worth using up some ScotlandsPeople credits to view the original and see what it really says!

Skinmellyarce, Pollokshaws
Henry Dain age 40, larpoer man, born Ireland (occupation is possibly labourer mason)
Jean Dain age 41, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire (think that's Kirkmaiden)
Janet Dain age 15, bancher, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire
John Dain age 13, cotton mill worker, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire
Margaret Dain age 11, cotton millworker, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire
Elizabeth Dain age 9, pokery worker, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire
Henry Dain age 7, born Straiton, Ayrshire
Mary Dain age 5, born Strutar, Ayrshire
James Dain age 4, born Strutar, Ayrshire

From that it appears the family were in Kirkmaiden until after the birth of Elizabeth, then moved to Straiton in Ayrshire, but had moved back to Pollockshaws some time after the birth of James.

They are in the 1851 census:
Cullstow, Straiton, Ayrshire
Henry Drain age 26, ag labourer, born Ireland
Jane Drain age 28
Jennet Drain age 5, born Kirkmaiden, Wigton
John Drain age 4, born Kirkmaiden, Wigton
Margaret Drain age 2, born Kirkmaiden, Wigton
AYRSHIRE - Strachan, McCrae, Haddow, Haggerty, Neilson, Alexander
ABERDEENSHIRE (Cruden and Longside) - Fraser, Hay, Logan, Hutcheon or Hutchison, Sangster
YORKSHIRE (Worsbrough) - Green, Oxley, Firth, Cox, Rock
YORKSHIRE (Royston and Carlton) - Senior, Simpson, Roydhouse, Hattersley