Author Topic: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry  (Read 22854 times)

Offline jaywit

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Re: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 21 April 15 19:40 BST (UK) »
One of the marriages mentioned.

Annie Betsy Vernal
1901
Registration Quarter:
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district:
Portsmouth
Inferred County:
Hampshire

Volume:
2b

Page:
1232
Name
 Arthur James Alexander <<<<<<<
 Alice Ruth Marsh 
 Alfred Ripley 
 Annie Betsy Vernall  <<<<<<<
 
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jaywit

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Re: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 21 April 15 19:43 BST (UK) »
And another one

Annie Raynor
Registration Year:
1902
Registration Quarter:
Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district:
Sculcoates
Inferred County:
Yorkshire East Riding
Volume:
9d
Page:
355

Name
 Sarah Ellen Breathwaite 
 Arthur James Hawley  <<<<<<<<<<<<
 Paul Boies Peterson 
 Annie Raynor  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
 
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Woody-Kiwi

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Re: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 21 April 15 23:22 BST (UK) »

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENANZ/1997-10/0876816231

Pountney, Mary Ann/Marjie Anne/Maize/Polly born Eng.Warickshire. 1876May17-
3 Church Rd. Lodge rd.Birmingham,War,England
Parents:William Pountney 1828 gun maker Ann Parry 1830
Spouses:William Wilford/Henry Sperry 1.m.Henry Baylie Cullerne
Children: 1.m.Fabian,Reginal,2.m.
2.m. Harry (Bart)/Henry Owen, Leslie Carroll 1902


This doesn't look right as to Mary Ann's birthdate, so shouldn't be relied upon without careful checking, but may give you a starting point.

From baptismal records it appears Mary Ann Pountney was born 4 May 1865 and baptised 2 May 1866 at St Peter & Paul, Aston, nr Birmingham.*

Parents were William (gun maker) and Ann, of Tower Road.

* At least one brother of this Mary Ann - Walter Reginald Pountney b 1873 - made his way to NZ.  He was on the electoral roll in Parnell 1905-6, and still in Auckland in 1911.  He died in WW2 in 1916.

Thank you so much all of you who are helping me out here. I am quite overwhelmed.

I can recall from browsing some of my granddads diaries some years ago, and during the time he was recovering in hospital in England from wounds received on Gallipoli, references to Marzie and Polly, and so I think it highly likely that the birthdate for Mary Ann (Marzie) is correct at 1865. I will need to dig out those diaries to try and confirm those nicknames though.

There have been "whispers" I recall from older family about some serious unhappiness for Mary Ann that she apparently hinted at in letters home to England. This might be related to the awful actions of Wilford as related by jaywit and jorose posts. I will go and read some of the links provided for a while.
In the meantime, thankyou again for all of your help.

Offline Woody-Kiwi

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Re: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 21 April 15 23:26 BST (UK) »
At the age of 21, Mary Ann Pountney married William Arthur Wilford, a widower, "agent", at St Andrew's Bordesley, Warwickshire on 17 April 1887.

The parish register shows that William claimed to be aged 27, but his father's unusual name of "Wood(h)all" Wilford makes it possible to identify that he was in fact older than that.

He was baptised as plain William Wilford at Nuneaton on 18 October 1857 (born 14 October 1856), son of Woodall and Maria.  He was therefore already 30 when he married Mary Ann.

William's previous marriage seems to have been (again as plain William Wilford) to Louisa Elson, Jun qtr 1883 Nuneaton. (In April 1886 William's brother John Noel Wilford married Louisa's sister Harriet Elson, and William Wilford was a witness).

William & Louisa had a daughter Maud Maria Wilford - birth registered in Foleshill district in Dec qtr 1883.  Maud was baptised at St Laurence, Foleshill on 18 November 1883 to parents William (brickmaker) and Louisa, of Jackers Hill.

There is a possible death for Louisa Wilford, aged 25, in Stratford upon Avon district in Sep qtr 1886.  The age is about right (Louisa Elson's birth was registered in Rugby district, Dec qtr 1861).

I have not traced what happened to Maud Maria or to William & Mary Ann after their marriage, or indeed identified where the Sperry name first comes into the picture.

Thank you avm228. I am sure you have opened the way to a lot more information. I appreciate it. :)


Offline avm228

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Re: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 22 April 15 00:30 BST (UK) »
You're welcome :)

We do love a good mystery on here, and you now have plenty of good material to digest.


22 January 1893 - supposed date of birth of your Francis
22 April 1894 - "Mann Sperry" (sp?) with "Francis" aged 1 year three months, arrives into Philadelphia.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-21553-2588-16?cc=1921481
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/DGS-004759427_00059?cc=1921483

Could be a badly written "Maria" or similar? The claim to be US citizens could just mean that Mr Sperry was one (no separate naturalisation process for women).  Unfortunately there's no indication of all of where precisely their destination was other than "returning home".

Jorose's instincts were spot on here- the corresponding outbound passenger list (for the Ohio, departing Liverpool 11 April 1894) shows this pair as Maria Sperry, 25, wife, and Francis Sperry, 1, infant.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Woody-Kiwi

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Re: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 22 April 15 02:25 BST (UK) »
You're welcome :)

We do love a good mystery on here, and you now have plenty of good material to digest.


22 January 1893 - supposed date of birth of your Francis
22 April 1894 - "Mann Sperry" (sp?) with "Francis" aged 1 year three months, arrives into Philadelphia.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-21553-2588-16?cc=1921481
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/DGS-004759427_00059?cc=1921483

Could be a badly written "Maria" or similar? The claim to be US citizens could just mean that Mr Sperry was one (no separate naturalisation process for women).  Unfortunately there's no indication of all of where precisely their destination was other than "returning home".

Jorose's instincts were spot on here- the corresponding outbound passenger list (for the Ohio, departing Liverpool 11 April 1894) shows this pair as Maria Sperry, 25, wife, and Francis Sperry, 1, infant.

I have just been discussing this with a surviving son of Fabian, my Uncle Lew, who is now 95. He visited England some time ago and met some of the Pountney's. Apparently there were two Mary Ann Marzie / Marjie / Polly daughters both born to the same parents, so there is some justifiable confusion between the two. I'm not entirely clear on how that exactly worked, but there may have been an Auntie Marzie as well.

What still puzzles me is that while is seems Wilford may have been a con man / ladies man, his real name may or may not have been one of his alias's as shown in the Weekly Mail when he was convicted as Hawley alias Howard and other names in 1902. The records for Fabian aged 1 yr 3 months and "Mann" aged 25 (no sex given) are 1894 and shipped on the Ohio to Philidelphia. And yet, they are known as "Sperry" even at that time. If Wilford was convicted in 1902 it is unlikely he would have been in NZ at the same time. Mary Ann shipped to NZ with two children in 1896 from San Fransisco. She had the first of 2 more children in 1901 to Cullern (probably out of wedlock) and we know in the family that her two "Sperry" boys (Fay and Reggie) were sent into an orphanage about that time. Poor little fellows would only have been 8 or so years at that time. Grandad got out of there about 14 years of age and came back to extract his younger brother later when he was able.
Q> Who was the "Sperry " she married (in England?--Henry Sperry?) about 1890-93?
Q Was Sperry an American citizen whom she followed back to America in 1894?
Q What happened to her husband Henry(?) Sperry?
Q Mary Ann arrived  in Auckland NZ on the Monowai from San Francisco 3rd Jan 1896 with 2 children but apparently no husband. Fay would have been almost 3 yrs and Reggie 1 1/2-2 yrs.
Q If there were actually TWO Mary Ann Pountneys of the same parents, which Mary Ann did Wilford marry in 1887? Could it have been the former older one?
Q Why were there no children from the Wilford marriage--or were there?
Q Is it possible there are two or more William Wilford's?
Q If Mary Ann Pountney (later Sperry) did marry a William Wilford in 1887 then she must have split from him prior to the birth of Francis Fabian Matterson Sperry in 1893 and this in turn would indicate it unlikely she was one of his (if he is the same as the bigamist) later victims duped into bigamy and out of money.

Crikey   :o   :-\   ::)

Offline Woody-Kiwi

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Re: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 22 April 15 06:53 BST (UK) »
William A. Wilford is listed in the 1896 Rochester, NY city directory as a manager at 109 East Main.  His home was at 45 South Clinton. 

His business is mentioned here & there are pictures of him: 
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f6i/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f6j/

He's mentioned as sailing home in 1896 - http://www.newspaperabstracts.com/link.php?action=detail&id=15571

Thank you Shellyesq. I looked at the first two links but was unable to link or see any photos of Wilford. I did see the short ref to Wilford in the bottom link you provided though.

Cheers, :)

Offline avm228

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Re: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 22 April 15 07:54 BST (UK) »
The Pountneys didn't have another Mary Ann, but they did amongst their many children have an Annie Maria in 1853.  She was a music teacher in 1881 but I haven't traced her thereafter. 

However I would be wary of getting too excited about this older sister being involved in any way (other than as an aunt), as the records found show that the M A Sperry who entered NZ was of an age to be the Mary Ann b 1865 whom we have been following.  Also, William Wilford's bride was 21 when they married in April 1887 - correct for Mary Ann who would have turned 22 in early May that year.

There is a niggling worry about the work done so far taking Mrs Sperry to be the same woman who had been married to Mr Wilford, in that that assumption has been based on an old posting found online by Whiteout7 (reply #4) which as I said earlier needed to be treated with caution - we do not know the originator of that information or the basis of the work which had led to their conclusions.

Some comfort is to be had from the fact that the 1917 Auckland Star article mentioned the deaths of two "cousins" on the Somme who correspond to Mary Ann's brothers.  Not cousins then, but it does look as though we probably have the right Pountney family IF Mary Ann Sperry was originally a Pountney.

However, to get things onto a more secure footing I would suggest that you prioritise ordering the birth certificate for Francis Matteson Sperry in 1893 for which index details were given earlier and which I think is likely to be the correct one for Fay. It can be ordered direct from the GRO online for 9.25 including postage to anywhere in the world.  Once you have the details from that (especially the father's name and occupation, and the mother's name including maiden name) there should be a much more secure basis to proceed.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Woody-Kiwi

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Re: Finding the father of Francis Fabian Madison Sperry and Reginald Poutney Sperry
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 22 April 15 08:06 BST (UK) »
Is this your information?

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENANZ/1997-10/0876816231

Pountney, Mary Ann/Marjie Anne/Maize/Polly born Eng.Warickshire. 1876May17-
3 Church Rd. Lodge rd.Birmingham,War,England
Parents:William Pountney 1828 gun maker Ann Parry 1830
Spouses:William Wilford/Henry Sperry 1.m.Henry Baylie Cullerne
Children: 1.m.Fabian,Reginal,2.m.
2.m. Harry (Bart)/Henry Owen, Leslie Carroll 1902


http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENANZ/1997-10/0878113860

Cullerne, Henry Baylieborn Eng.Kent.52 Milton Rd.Milton 1856Sep08
Occupation: Draughtsman of Abbotsford st,Newmarket
Parents: Baylie Henry Cullerne Mary Ann Cartwright
Deptd.Tilbury Engalnd on`Ormuz' for Sydney 12 Feb l892
spouse: Mary Ann PountneyMairze/Polly/Mary Ann Sperry (nee Pountney)
Children: Harry (Bart)/Henry Owen, Leslie Carol CullerneAdd.in
NZ.Abbotsford St.Newmarket,Auckland
Died:1937July10 Auckland NZ
1937July10 Auckland NZ

((If She was Mary Wilford before becoming Mary Sperry, then this would help people find the Sperry marriage #important clue))

Hi again whiteout7. I had a look at these two links and they appear to have been generated by a fellow working on his own research. They may not be totally correct. it may be that there were actually two Mary Ann Pountney, actually an older and younger sister about 10 years apart. This makes the tracking of marriages, / partners and children confusing. To me at least-- I'm not sure which one might have married Wilford and still not sure of Henry Sperry. I looked at the info available on birth certificates' because that may be the best trace for Francis Fabian Matteson Sperry's parents , but it seems that often the father is not recorded unless present at the registration.  I have downloaded some records of Sperry marriages and also Pountney marriages beteen 1890 and 1895 with the intention of cross comparisons. On the marriage listing I cannot see who the spouses are for some reason.