SURNAME - MORRIS , John Llanrhaiadr/ Llanfyllin, DAVIS, WIILIAMS, DENNING.

[gene-genie]

I have 3 generations of JOHN MORRIS:

1. John MORRIS born Llanrhaiadr  Montgomery 1854  Wife:  Catherine DAVIS

2. John MORRIS   b.  Llanrhaiadr, Denbighshire  1874   
Occ: Master Tailor, Llanfyllin.  Married Elizabeth Jane WILLIAMS  (b. 1873 Bettws Y Coed)   in Llanfyllin Dec 1897.  Daughter of Maurice/Morris Williams.

3. John MORRIS  born Pentre, Llanfyllin  1898  married Violet Maud Louisa DENNING, in Tylorstown Glamorgan  in 1923.  Served in both world wars but know very little about him.

[Lloydy]

Welcome to Rootschat!!!

What would you like us to look up?  Please post your questions and I am sure we will be able to help you.

I have access to the 1851 and 1861 Montgomeryshire census, and the 1881 is free to search here http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp

Jan

[gene-genie]

Welcome to Rootschat!!!

What would you like us to look up?  Please post your questions and I am sure we will be able to help you.

I have access to the 1851 and 1861 Montgomeryshire census, and the 1881 is free to search here http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp

Jan

Hi  Jan,

I have the Wedding Cert of John MORRIS aged 23 to Elizabeth Jane WILLIAMS aged 24 in Llanfyllin in 1897.   John's father also JOHN MORRIS, but deceased by 1897.   Annoyingly, it does not give his former profession.

The certificate does not say where John was born, just that he was living Llanfyllin at the time of his marriage.  The bride was born in Bettws Y Coed  1873, dau Maurice WILLIAMS and Elizabeth GRIFFITH.
 
This is where I've guessed a bit, as on the Witnesses is ELIZA MORRIS, which may be mother or sister.  [Snookered if it's sister-in-law! ]
So I looked on the 1881 Census for a John Morris, Head with son John aged 7  with a mother or sister called Elizabeth:  The JOHN MORRIS, Head of household I found are:

1.
 John MORRIS   Head   M   Male   27   Llanrhaiadr, Montgomery, Wales   General Labourer     
 Catherine MORRIS   Wife   M   Female   30   Llanrhaiadr, Montgomery, Wales       
 John MORRIS   Son      Male   7   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales   Scholar     
 David MORRIS   Son      Male   6   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales   Scholar     
 Margaret MORRIS   Daur      Female   4   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales       
 Eliza MORRIS   Daur      Female   2   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales       
 Erby MORRIS   Son      Male   2 m   Llanrhaiadr, Montgomery, Wales       
 Margaret DAVIES   Mother in Law   W   Female   68   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales   Dressmaker     


~~~~~~~~
Source Information:
  Dwelling   Vicarage Bach
  Census Place Llanrhaiadr Ym Mochnant, Montgomery, Wales
  Family History Library Film   1342321
  Public Records Office Reference   RG11
  Piece / Folio   5499 / 60
  Page Number   19


2.John MORRIS   Head   M   Male   40   Liverpool   Umbrella Maker     
 Elizabeth MORRIS   Wife   M   Female   39   Liverpool       
 Joseph MORRIS   Son   U   Male   12   Bangor   Scholar     
 Hugh MORRIS   Son   U   Male   10   Caernarvon, Wales   Scholar     
 John MORRIS   Son   U   Male   7   Caernarvon, Wales   Scholar     
 Margt. MORRIS   Daur   U   Female   3   Carmarthen, Wales   Scholar     
 Mary MORRIS   Daur   U   Female   2   Conway       
 Catharine MORRIS   Daur   U   Female   4 m   Caernarvon, Wales       


~~~~~~~~
Source Information:
  Dwelling   Kyffyn Sqr
  Census Place Bangor, Caernarvon, Wales
  Family History Library Film   1342339
  Public Records Office Reference   RG11
  Piece / Folio   5575 / 49
  Page Number   15
     
3.  John MORRIS   Head   M   Male   40   Llanfair, Montgomery, Wales   Agr Lab      
 Mary MORRIS   Wife   M   Female   40   Castle Caerenion, Montgomery, Wales       
 Thomas MORRIS   Son      Male   13   Castle Caerenion, Montgomery, Wales   Scholar     
 Mary MORRIS   Daur      Female   10   Castle Caerenion, Montgomery, Wales   Scholar     
 John MORRIS   Son      Male   7   Castle Caerenion, Montgomery, Wales   Scholar     
 Eliza MORRIS   Daur      Female   5   Castle Caerenion, Montgomery, Wales       


~~~~~~~~
Source Information:
  Dwelling   Dorrington Watery Lane
  Census Place Mucklestone, Stafford, England
  Family History Library Film   1341641
  Public Records Office Reference   RG11
  Piece / Folio   2673 / 102
  Page Number   7


The groom mentioned above was a Master Tailor in Llanfyllin by trade, but his son - also JOHN MORRIS b Llanfyllin 1898, was a Smith Assistant when he married Violet Maud Louisa DENNING in 1923.  Might his grandfather have been a blacksmith too?  (I only suggest this incase it helps the search.

I need to look for John Morris (the groom) on the 1891 Census to narrow it down further, but as family seem to have strong connections to Montgomery, I'd imagine Nos 1 & 3 are the most likely.

Could you look for these 3
JOHN MORRIS   abt 1841  on 1851 & 1861 Census please? 

Thanks so much......

[Lloydy]

Hi

I will certainly have a look in '51 and'61 for you.  Can you just confirm that I am looking for a JOHN MORRIS born about 1841?

Just to let you know that I do also have the '71 and '91 but unfortunately they are not name indexed (a real pain).  I would be happy to have a look at them too but it would make it much easier for me if you could narrow the search down to an area.

Will be back shortly.........

Jan

[gene-genie]

Hi

I will certainly have a look in '51 and'61 for you.  Can you just confirm that I am looking for a JOHN MORRIS born about 1841?

Just to let you know that I do also have the '71 and '91 but unfortunately they are not name indexed (a real pain).  I would be happy to have a look at them too but it would make it much easier for me if you could narrow the search down to an area.

Will be back shortly.........


Hi Jan,   

Yes, I think John Morris of Llanfair born 1841 is the most likely link.

My JOHN MORRIS not born until 1874,  but can you search 1891 by age?  If so, in 1891 my JOHN MORRIS would be 16 or 17 years  -  I'd try  MONTGOMERY - Castle Caerenion, Lanfair or even Llanfyllin.
Thanks again!

[Lloydy]

From 1851, John Morris born about 1841.  That would make him about 10 years of age.

How about this family as a possibility?

HO107/2499, folio 98, page 5 - Living at Tanyfron, Llanfair Caereinion

John Morris Head 42 Farmer of 38 Acres born MGY Llanbrynmair
Mary Morris Wife 35 born MGY Llanerfyl
Margaret Morris Daughter 13 employed at home born MGY Llanfair
John Morris Son 10 employed at home born MGY Llanfair
Evan Morris Son 7 born MGY Llanfair
Joseph Morris Son 3 born MGY Llanfair

 or another possibility

HO107/2499, folio 31, page 3 - Living at 18 Upper Gate Street, Llanfair Caereinion

Watkin Morris Head 35 Ag Labourer born MGY Llanfair
Mary Morris Wife 40 born MGY Cast Caerenion
Ann Morris Daughter 14 Scholar born MGY Newtown
Mary Morris Daughter 11 Scholar born MGY Llanfair
John Morrish Son 9 Scholar born MGY Llanfair


There are other John Morris listed of about the right age but not born in Llanfair.  Let me know if you would like the details.

Do you know for sure where John Morris was born? 

Off to look at 1861 now.......

Jan

[Lloydy]

In 1861 the only one I could find 20 year old John Morris, a servant for the Phillips family at Bryncowng, Llanrhaiadr-ym-Mochnant.  Born in MGY Llanfair.

I have already started to have a look for a 16/17 year old John Morris in 1891, but please be patient with me on this one!!!!  It's going to take me a while   There are a lot of pages, and the enumerator's writing is awful!!!!

Jan

[Lloydy]

Thanks for your PM.  I will wait for you to look up John Morris on the 1901 census first before I trawl through the 1891!!!!!

Jan

[gene-genie]

Thanks for your PM.  I will wait for you to look up John Morris on the 1901 census first before I trawl through the 1891!!!!!

Jan

Hi,

I've had a look on the 1901 census for John MORRIS tailor aged about 27 took a bit to find him as he was a Lodger in house in  Mountain Ash!

1901
54 Glan Lay Street, Penrhiwceiber, Mountain Ash, Glamorganshire.   

John Hy Evans    Head,   M 35   Coal Miner  Chewer  b. Llangynog, Montg.  Lang:  both.
Elizabeth Evans  Wife  M  28  b.  Newstreet, Cardiganshire.  Lang: Both
Anne Jane Evans  dau.  9 months   Penrhiwceiber, Glam.
John  MORRIS  M  26   Lodger  Occ Tailor.  b Llanrhaiadr Mochnant. Lang: Both.

I take it, 'Chewer' is the name of the pit?I note James Hy Evans is born in the same town as Morris'  wife and family are living, so maybe EVANS a family friend: 

5 Church Road,  Llangynog,  Llanfyllin, Montgomeryshire.

Elizabeth J Morris   Wife   M  23  b. Glamorgan   Language:  Both
John W Morris son 2 years  b.  Mont Llanfyllian  [The line I'm following]
Sophia E Morris   dau 9 months  b Mont  Llangynog

Still,  it seems her husband John Morris  was born in 1874 in LLANRHAIADR MONCHANT - which seems to be both  Montgomeryshire and Denbigh!   For those confused (I was !)This might help:

Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant
 
"A parish in the Union of Llanfyllin, composed of the lower division, in the Cynlleth and Mochnant division of the hundred of Chirk, county of Denbigh; and the upper portion, in the upper division of the hundred of Llanfyllin, county of Montgomery; 12 miles (W by S) from Oswestry, and containing 2344 inhabitants. ..... This parish is intersected by the river Moch, which, at the distance of four miles from the village, forms the much admired waterfall called Pistyll Rhaiadr. ..... The river precipitates itself with great impetuosity down a steep descent of more than 150 feet, and, being interrupted in its fall by a projecting mass of rock, through which it has formed a channel, forms a second fall beneath a lofty arch to the base of the mountain."
[A Topographical Dictionary of Wales, 1833 & 1849, Samuel Lewis]

According to Archdeacon Thomas, the parish of Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant at one time included the parishes of Llanarmon Mynydd Mawr, Llangadwaladr, Llangedwyn; and part of Llanwddyn (in Montgomeryshire).

The townships of the parish of Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant which were in the pre-1974 county of Montgomery were: Abermarchnant, Brithdir, Castellmoch, Cefn Coch, Glanhafon Fach, Glanhafon Fawr and Nantfyllon.
The townships which were in the pre-1974 county of Denbigh were: Banhadla Ucha, Banhadla Isa, Gartheryr, Henfachau, Trebrys Fawr, Trebrys Fach, Trefeiliw, Tre'r-Llan and Tre-Wern.

According to this entry in the 1881  Census JOHN MORRIS was born in the DENBIGH part:

John MORRIS   Head   M   Male   27   Llanrhaiadr, Montgomery, Wales   General Labourer     
 Catherine MORRIS   Wife   M   Female   30   Llanrhaiadr, Montgomery, Wales       
 John MORRIS   Son      Male   7   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales   Scholar     
 David MORRIS   Son      Male   6   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales   Scholar     
 Margaret MORRIS   Daur      Female   4   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales       
 Eliza MORRIS   Daur      Female   2   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales       
 Erby MORRIS   Son      Male   2 m   Llanrhaiadr, Montgomery, Wales       
 Margaret DAVIES   Mother in Law   W   Female   68   Llanrhaiadr, Denbigh, Wales   Dressmaker.     

From this you can see John's parents were JOHN MORRIS and CATHERINE DAVIS b 1851.