Author Topic: Routledge - Scottish connection??  (Read 1537 times)

Offline Annie65115

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Routledge - Scottish connection??
« on: Friday 01 May 15 21:02 BST (UK) »
This is for a friend; buying BMD certs is not an option so I'm working from internet sources.

My friend's ancestor was Florence May Routledge b 1896, Kensington, and my friend has always understood that this was the "Scottish side of the family" - Aberdeen was mentioned. But she knew the Routledges lived in London, and that Florence's parents were Frederick and Elizabeth nee Jarvis.

Using this info and stuff on Ancestry I have Frederick R b 1870, son of William R and Emma Mary nee Tibbs. William R was a French polisher and I believe that I've found his birth in 1845 in St George's (London), parents James and Louisa, both born in Cumbria.

So far, so not-Scottish. William's siblings though included brothers called Wallace (b1852) and Arthur Bruce (1859, known as Bruce), plus a sister called Annie Laurie, so perhaps the family was suggesting a Scottish heritage. (Frederick - my friend's ancestor as above - also had a son called Wallace which I think backs up the family connection).

My friend is a bit baffled by absence of Scottish-ness, given that it was apparently always said they were from Scotland! And now, to cinfuse matters futher, I think I've found Bruce R in the 1911 census in which he says he was born in Inverness! (although in 1901 he claimed Bloomsbury as place of birth which would fit with other sources!)

So where does Aberdeen or Inverness fit in? Am I missing something or getting something confused and following the wrong line? Can anyone cast an eye over the censuses etc and see if/where I might have gone wrong?
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Offline crisane

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Re: Routledge - Scottish connection??
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 02 May 15 01:47 BST (UK) »
Births March 1/4 1859   
Bruce Arthur  Routledge   St Giles  1b 387

This birth reg would fit with this baptism
Arthur Bruce Routledge Born 9 feb 1859
Baptised 4 April 1859
Father -James Routledge
Mother - Louisa Routledge
Bloomsbury St George, Camden

Maybe  Arthur Bruce was a Scottish history buff and romanticized his origins a little?  :)

Added:- doing a basic search on ScotlandsPeople 1858 -  1860 for Routledge in Inverness, no first names, brings up one result. Add either Arthur or Bruce as a first name and there are no results.



Offline trish1120

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Re: Routledge - Scottish connection??
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 02 May 15 08:03 BST (UK) »
For some reason I was fascinated by this one as I couldnt find James Georges Marriage to Louisa.
Also he is born c 1812-1821 on Census.

I found this;
JAMES GEORGE Routledge Christened 23 July 1821, Saint James**, Whitehaven, Cumberland
Parents WILLIAM/MARGARET
Sibling;
(may be more but didnt look well)
WILLIAM HUNTER, 23 July 1820

1851 Census
4 Blenheim St,
St George Hanover Square,
Middlesex
HO107/1475/52/20
William ROUTLEDGE, 73, Widower, Tailor, born St Mary, Middlesex
William, 32, Son, Unm, Tailor, born St James, Middlesex
JAMES, 30, Son, Unm, French Polisher*, born St James Whitehpen, Middlesex
Augustus, 23, Son, Unm, Smith, born St James Whitehpen, Middlesex

I think pob should be St James, Whitehaven, Cumberland

So are some of  the Children on 1861 Census born before James/Louisa married or got together?

Trish :)



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Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Routledge - Scottish connection??
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 02 May 15 12:38 BST (UK) »
The Routledges were traditionally a border family and would be found on either side of the Scottish border depending on the current "political" climate.  They usually described themselves as borderers rather than Scots or English.
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline barryd

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Re: Routledge - Scottish connection??
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 02 May 15 13:26 BST (UK) »
Mine I have traced back to Allendale, Northumberland. Those who came to America normally changed to Rutledge.

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Routledge - Scottish connection??
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 02 May 15 17:05 BST (UK) »
Rutlege was a usual alternative spelling in the UK in the 17th century and earlier.

The surname Routledge takes its ancient origins from two words, rudd leche meaning red stream. There are countless variations in the early spelling of Rutledge, the earliest recorded have a Norman flavour and include De Routluge. From the Middle Ages onwards Routledge becomes the main spelling and it still exists in this form today. In the 15th Century the Routledges are found across the debatable land, a lawless enclave on the English Scots border. Their earliest home is said to have been on the Bailey waters near Bewcastle in the southern debatable lands. On a present day map "Routledge Burn" ( Burn meaning stream, perhaps this is the red stream the name comes from ! ) appears in the Kershope forest less than 1 mile south of the current Scots border which is marked by Liddle water.
  General Dacre the warden of the West March is said to have assembled a force of over 500 men to destroy the Routledges. They managed to escape north of the border with most of their possessions and relocated around the Tarras Burn. When the 2 crowns of England and Scotland united under one kingdom the reiver families of the border region suffered great hardship, no longer able to escape into a foreign land and exploit the many loopholes they had used for generations.
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Annie65115

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Re: Routledge - Scottish connection??
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 02 May 15 19:13 BST (UK) »
Quote
1851 Census
4 Blenheim St,
St George Hanover Square,
Middlesex
HO107/1475/52/20
William ROUTLEDGE, 73, Widower, Tailor, born St Mary, Middlesex
William, 32, Son, Unm, Tailor, born St James, Middlesex
JAMES, 30, Son, Unm, French Polisher*, born St James Whitehpen, Middlesex
Augustus, 23, Son, Unm, Smith, born St James Whitehpen, Middlesex

I hadn't seen this so thank you

But I am now more confused!! I hadn't found my friend's James in 1851 but in 1861 I have the following:
25 Little Coram St, St James Bloomsbury
James Routledge (head)  age 49, taxidermist, v northumberland
Louisa Routledge (wife)  age 47  b Sussex (?)
Agusta Routledge (son) age 25 (?)   piano key (something), b London
William Routledge (son) age 18 french polisher  b St George
Louisa Routledge (daur) age 11 b St Pancras (?)
Wallace Routledge (son) age 9  b      ditto
Bruce Routledge (son) age 5 b Hampstead
Annie (daur) age 6 mo b Bloomsbury

The baptisms of the above children are on Ancestry; the family were a bit tardy at times and Augustus wasn't baptised until 1861. James's occ was given on the baptisms as french polisher, and Louisa is named as mother. The earliest baptism which appears to be for this family was of James George Routledge in Feb 1843. Three children were seperately baptised in 1851 (Louisa, Robert and William, the latter dob being given as 1844), the first two from an address in Marson St and William from Brill Crescent.

But I haven't found the children or Louisa in 1851!

Now how is this going to link with the french polishing James age 30 in 1851, allegedly unmarried, and having a brother Augusta? It all seems awfully coincidental!
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline Annie65115

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Re: Routledge - Scottish connection??
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 02 May 15 19:21 BST (UK) »
Oh goodness

I've just found an Augustus Routledge in 1851, at Brownlow St, St Giles in the fields
married, age 28, b Whitehaven Cumberland, occ smith in pianoforte manufacturer
his wife Elizabeth age 23 b Surrey
(by 1861 he's a housepainter and allegedly from Carlisle)
(note the link with pianos and the post above!!)

There has to be a connection here, doesn't there? How do these all link together??
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline Annie65115

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Re: Routledge - Scottish connection??
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 05 May 15 13:23 BST (UK) »
I've looked harder at this and thought I'd put my further thoughts down in case anyone else comes across this thread in the future. I suspect (though can't prove definitely) that this was what happened:

William ROUTLEDGE m Margaret HUNTER, both OTP, at St James Picadilly on 20 April 1818.
2 Baptisms in St James, Whitehaven, Cumberland to William and Margaret Routledge on 23 July 1820: William HUNTER Routledge and James George Routledge.

I can find no trace of any family member in 1841.

In 1851, in Blenheim St, Hanover Square, is 73 yr old William R and his sons (as in posts above); William born in Middlesex, the sons in St James or Whitehaven (allegedly Middlesex!)
Seperately on the 1851 census is Augustus Routledge, age 28 and a smith at a piano manufacturer; and James (french polisher, b Cumberland)  and his wife Louisa with their children who include an Augustus as the oldest son. Note that James's and Augustus's occupations match those given by William.

I think that the elderly William was confused and named all his sons to the enumerator, whether they were there or not that night.

James (my index person for this search) gives his year of birth as anything between 1812 - 1820 in the various censuses; Louisa was no better (1821 - 1827). I guess their exact ages weren't that important to them.

So no Scottish roots as yet but if anyone has a better theory, please let me know!
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)