Author Topic: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim  (Read 17489 times)

Offline SpudKiwi

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Re: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 20 June 15 18:03 BST (UK) »
Welcome MFGilbert, to my thread. I am pleased that you may have found our ramblings useful, and thank you for your contribution. I too have come across Dolway Bell. But like with Edward of Lennymore, there is nothing to link him directly, or indirectly for that matter, with the Crumlin BELLs. The trouble with BELLs is that there are just so many of them, a bit like tribbles (Star Trek reference). The geographical proximity of Aghnadarrah and Lennymore is tempting, but may be nothing more than a red herring.

I haven't looked too closely into them. I've been focusing on the 3 brothers and trying to work outwards from there. When that stops being productive (and I think that may be soon) then I may try investigating the nearby BELLs to see if they produce any mention of the Crumlin lot.

I've never been able to get that OSI map website to work either. I find the one here quite good though..  http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation .

Allen and John didn't come to NZ together. Within about 5 years of Allen arriving, John shows up on the radar as being in a farming partnership with Allen, and 2 of Allen's brothers-in-law in Canterbury, South Island, NZ. This farm was Glenfield. They both did well enough to buy farms of their own. These farms were in the same province, John called his farm Belgrove, and I dont know if Allen's farm had a name. Allen went broke (continuing a fine family tradition) and moved to Taranaki in the North Island where he essentially became a tenant farmer, leasing Maori land to farm. John did much better and upgraded to a bigger farm in Marlborough, South Island, and called this farm Glenfield. Unfortunately John's 6 children failed to procreate and that line ended.

I too have wondered how relevant the Belgrove name is. I guess it's just relevant enough to prevent me from discarding the snippets I have for Dolway and the Aghnadarragh BELLs!
BELL - Crumlin / Glenavy / New Zealand
CORMICAN - Crumlin
WHITE - Crumlin
MATHEWS - Comber NI
TOLERTON - New Zealand

Offline Gilby

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Re: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 21 June 15 12:47 BST (UK) »
Ah, I'd thought Aghnadarragh bad been accepted as the origin of your Bells.  Oh well.

Yes, I love the Griffith's map on askaboutireland.  The one that was on the OSI website was similar, but 30 years older.  I think they took it down a few months ago to do work on it - apparently it was back up a couple of weeks ago - still not working for me though.  Hopefully it'll come back eventually.

Good luck

Offline SpudKiwi

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Re: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 21 June 15 22:46 BST (UK) »
The Aghnadarragh BELLs were on the radar as I found a John Bell farming there as well, and I wondered if my BELLs had moved there after leaving Glenfield. However I have established that my John BELL never left the district, moving from the Glenfield farm into Crumlin town to live out his days.

It may be that we did come from Aghnadarrah at some point, but that is speculative at best at this point.

I now have a new worm in my can. While searching the name Susannah BELL (a name I picked up from the PRONI indexes relating to the land in Ballygortgarve), I found a birth record. This record names a Susannah BELL being born in Crumlin, Antrim in 1867, to an Alexander BELL and Isabella IRELAND. This is too late to be the Susannah BELL in the PRONI indexes (1822-1826) but it puts another male BELL in very close geographical and chronological proximity to John (b.ca.1793-d.1878).

BELL - Crumlin / Glenavy / New Zealand
CORMICAN - Crumlin
WHITE - Crumlin
MATHEWS - Comber NI
TOLERTON - New Zealand


Offline oakman-ireland

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Re: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 11 February 18 05:58 GMT (UK) »
There was a Susannah Clements who married John Bell at Glenavy Parish Church on 25 July 1810.  She was the daughter of William Clements of "Clements Mount" Ballydonaghy.  Susannah's sister, Alicia Clements, married William Oakman of Pigeontown.  John Bell is executor and/or witness on a number of old Memorial Deeds relating to the Oakman family.

There is an Agnes Bell, daughter of John Bell of Carnaughliss and Jane Eliza (surname unknown).  Agnes married Samuel Johnston sometime before 1850 and the couple had a farm in Ballyminimore ("Hopevale") which had previously been in the Oakman family.  I've wondered whether Agnes' father was any relation to John Bell and Susannah.

On a map of Aghnadarragh dated around 1833 there are adjoining properties with the following names: Allen Bell, William Bell, Dolway Bell, John Bell, William Robert Bell, and Edward Bell.  These properties all border Ballyvollen where the McNeice's and Oakman's had farms.

The Limerick Chronical dated 4 May 1844 :
At Lough Neagh, on Friday, Alexander Charters, son of Mr John Charters, of Belfast, Mr Henry Nelson, son of Mr James Nelson, Ballinderry, and Mr Allen Bell, Glenavy-water-foot, were consigned to an early grave. They had gone on the lake on a pleasure excursion; and when rounding Ram's-island, the yacht capsized, in a sudden squall, and sunk,when the three young men perished.

I'm researching the Oakman families of Glenavy and seeking to learn whether there was a family connection between William Oakman of Pigeontown and the McNeices and Sloanes who were also there.

Offline DonnaMarie1982

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Re: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 21 February 21 02:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi!

I am researching various Dalway/Dolway Clements as they are part of my direct line. The name is commonly used in this branch of the family and as there is a Susannah Clements that marries a Bell I believe this is where the name Dolway has been passed down.

The name originates from Edward Clements and Eleanor Dalway of Straid. Their Eldest son is named Dalway Clements and is passed down from then onwards.

I am aware of a Dolway Clements b1758 Glenavy who served in the military in the Oxford blues and ends up dying in Birmingham, England (details taken from Chelsea pensioner records). Given the dates he is possibly a brother of William Clements the father of Susannah.

Would love to hear if anything else if found on this and will continue to research.

Donna.

Offline Gilby

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Re: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 27 February 21 12:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Donna,

I’m not directly related, but I am interested in what you know about the first Dalway Clements and his descendants. 

Gilby

Offline DonnaMarie1982

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Re: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 27 February 21 13:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi Gilby,

I've just done an all nighter looking at this actually so your timing is perfect while its fresh in my mind.

At the top of the Glenavy branch is a William Clements who dies 1810 Dalway Clements is named on his will as his son. Williams wife Alice dies 1812 at the age of 82 so born around 1729 in Glenavy.

I am currently trying to piece together how this William is connected to the original couple of Eleanor Dalway and Alexander Clements in Ballyhill. Their son Hercules has it in his will that he was at Clements Mount but is now of Carrickfergus showing the families are moving between the two locations. Eleanor and Dalway have a son called Dalway who has a son called William so this maybe a possibility but there are quite a few other branches of the tree to try and follow to see if there are other Williams.

Donna

Offline Gilby

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Re: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 27 February 21 13:33 GMT (UK) »
Would this student have been grandson of Edward Clements and Eleanor Dalway?

Alumni Dublinensis:
CLEMENTS, DALWAY, Pen. (Mr. Blackhall, Derry), May 21, 1708, aged 15; s. of Dalway, Coriarius; b. Maghrafelt, Co. Antrim.

I’m not sure if this means Magherafelt in Co L’Derry, or is there a Maghrafelt in Co Antrim?

A Dalway Clements of Ballymultrea (Co L’Derry) left a will dated 8th April 1721.  Ballymultrea is not far to the southeast of Magherafelt.

Offline Gilby

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Re: Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 27 February 21 13:38 GMT (UK) »
Betham will abstract:

Humphrey Tracy of Ballyneillbeg, Co Derry, Gent.
Dated 19th Jun 1729 – Proved 20th May 1738.

Son John.
Granddaughters Mildred, Elizabeth, Anne and Mary, daughters of John.
Son Francis.
Granddaughters Sarah, Anne, Mary, and Elizabeth, daughters of Francis.
Granchildren Whilewright Clements, Jean Leland, Elizabeth Homand [Howard?] and Sarah Homand.
Grandsons Joshua, Arthur, John and William Dawson.
Son James.
Sons-in-law John Homand, William Dawson, Dalway Clements, James Learson, Thomas Courtney, and William Leland.
Wife Joanna.