Early Annan Census - look up offer

[cupcake]

Hi sgj,

Thanks for the information on James GASS burial place. Haven't found anything on James's father, George.

On my last post I mentioned a James GASS on the 1821 Annan census, with spouse and 3 sons and 1 daughter. Obviously, I can't be sure it's your James but, it is possible as that was the only James Gass for 1821. Also, they were married in 1807 and quite possibly had 4 children in the 14 years.

However, I was at the library today and went through the IGI on microfiche and there were no births for James & Elizabeth. As you will probably know, in Scotland, it was not compulsory to register a birth before 1855.

Would imagine any children born before 1841 would probably have married and, may have left the area or, some may have died.

The 1841 census has the following:

James Gass   
age 55
Parish - Annan
Address - Carlyle Place
Occ.  Joiner
Household members
James Gass  55
Elizabeth Gass  45
Nathanael  Gass  13
Robert Gass  10
Agness Gass  3 (granddaughter)

1851 Census

Agness - granddaughter of James Gass  13 born Annan
James Gass head of household - married  69 joiner Master born Annan
Elizabeth Gass wife of James Gass - married 63 born Kirkcolm, Wigtownshire

1861 Census:

James Gass  Age 79
Parish - Annan
Address - Downies Wynd
Occ. Retired joiner
Elizabeth Gass  Age 73
Thomas H Pendlebury  Boarder
Mary Burns  Boarder

1870 12/2 4F 
This information is from Dumfries Standard:

On the 3rd inst. at Downies Wynd, Annan, Elizabeth STEEL wife of Mr James GASS, retired joiner aged 84 years.
 
James was still alive then and must have been in his 90th year. That was a good age, back then.

Hope this has helped. Only wish I could have found the other children. Would be interesting to know if you find anything on them.

regards,

cupcake

[cupcake]

Hi sgj,

This is just a thought as Nathaniel is not a common name.

Found this in the Annan Old Parish Graveyard MI's and wondered if there was any connection with James's parents George Gass & Margaret Wield. Thought perhaps William Wield maybe Margaret's brother. Also the name Nathaniel and Robert are mentioned

In memory of Christopher Wield son of William Wield baker, Annan who died 4th July 1818 aged 14 days and Robert Wield his son who died 20th January 1822 aged 5 years and 6 months. Also Margaret Carlyle Wield his daughter who died 11th April 1822 aged 2 years and ten months. Christopher Wield his son who died 29th April 1822 aged 6 months. Also Margaret C. Wield his daughter  who died 28th March 1831 aged 2 years 9 months and Nathaniel Wield his son who died 20th September 1851 aged 42 yrs. Also Nathaniel Wield his grandson who died 17th December 1846 aged 14 days and the above William Wield who died 2nd February 1856 aged 75 yrs. Also his wife Jean Gass his wife who died 11th February 1859 aged 76 yrs. Stone flaked at top.

cupcake

[sgj]

Hi Cupcake

Thank you for all the info you have found.  My gg grandfather was George Gass, he moved down to Manchester and married there in 1845.  His father was James Gass, Joiner.  I was hoping that we might find a birth date or something for George.  Would there be a baptismal certificate anywhere.  Margaret Neilson was a witness at George's marriage, her maiden name was Gass, and her father was James Gass, Joiner, so she must have been a sister.  She appears in the 1871 census, living with her father in Annan. 

Was Annan a very small town back in 1800?  It is amazing how often the names Gass, Irving, Steel, Weild seem to crop up in different families.

Regards
SGJ

[cupcake]

You're welcome.

It does seem strange that I can't find any of their birth details.

Just checked on Scotlands People for George Gass birth/certificate. There is only one George Gass birth between 1st January 1810 - 31 December 1825 but the father wasn't James. If it's not on Scotlands People, then it is very likely, his birth wasn't registered.

Does his marriage certificate not give his age, which might help. The English certificates don't normally give as much info as the Scottish, but I would have thought his age would be on it.

Not too sure about the size of Annan in the 1800 but, I believe it was a thriving town back then. My GGGG Grandfather was a blacksmith in Annan in the early 1800's.

cupcake

[cupcake]

Hi sgj,

Have been back onto "Scotlands People" and searched for all Gass births, from 1807 up to 1830.There are none for James and Elizabeth.

If they are not on SP the births were not registered.

I wonder if the children were born in England?

cupcake

[sgj]

Hi Cupcake

On  George's marriage certificate his age is just shown as "full".  On the 1861 census George's age is shown as 49, but I think that is probably wrong, and his country of birth is shown as Scotland.  Unfortunately I have not been able to find him on the either 1841 or 1851 censuses.   I  think George Gass  was born in 1821.

I think you are probably right that James and Elizabeth did not register their children's births.

Thanks for all your help,   

Regards
SGJ

[cupcake]

Hi SGJ,

As far as I am aware, "FULL" means he was of age.

Can I ask where you saw the 1861 census for George. I have only seen the 1841 with Nathanael Gass 13 and Robert Gass 10.  1851 Census  and the 1861 census with just James & Elizabeth. I got these from Ancestry.com at the library.

If his age was correct, he would have been born 1812 and would have been 33 years when married in 1845. Meaning, he married late in life.

However, I think you may be right in thinking he was born in 1821, he would have 24 years when he married, which would make more sense. They wouldn't have put "FULL" for his age, if  was 33.

It is a mystery as to where the children are. You can occasionally, not find one or two births but, I can't find any.

Do you have George's death entry, this would give his age.

Please let me know if anything turns up and I'll continue to look and will pass on any information I find.

cupcake

[sgj]

Hi Cupcake

I found the information on Ancestry.com.  On the 1861 census George Gass is in Birkenhead, lodging with a family called Paterson, Margaret Paterson is the head of the family, and she is from Scotland.  George is a widower and his two sons are with him.

George remarried in April 1861 and the family moved to South Africa, arriving in January 1863.  His age on the manifest is 42, that is why I think he was probably born in 1821.  Unfortunately I don't know when he died.  I have however found a marriage certificate for his second wife,  she is a widow remarries in 1869, which means that George Gass  must have died sometime before this.

Regards
SGJ

[cupcake]

Hi sgj,

Thanks for the information.

Yes,  I think you are right with George born in 1821 the dates certainly fit in. It is only a guess, George probably died around 1867. Widows/widowers usually remarried within 2 years. Either way, George was a young man when he died. I don't know when James, his father died, but he was in 90's.

I popped into the library this afternoon and managed to see the 1871 census with James Gass 89 and his daughter Margaret Neilson 35 and housekeeper. Margaret must have been born abt.1836.

You mentioned a Margaret Neilson was a witness at George's marriage ( I was unable to view the marriage details, due to technical problems with Ancestry at the library) However, I could be wrong, but George's sister would only have been 9 years old in 1845.

Please let me know how you get on. I enjoy doing searchers, even better when I manage to get results.

Regards,

cupcake