Help to trace birth/baptism John Drain - solid brick wall

[BevStimpson]

My 2 x Great Granddad is an elusive man, both myself and my cousin are researching him and have hit a solid brick wall. He is leading us a very merry dance to say the least.

Here is what we have so far, (I've also attached a note believed to have been written by him).

From his first marriage certificate:
John Drain married 28 March 1871 in Penrith, Cumberland age 21 years, bachelor, to Margaret McTurk age 19 yrs, spinster. He was a Granite polisher, she was a domestic servant, both were living at the quarry in Shap at the time of marriage. He gives his fathers name as Andrew Drain who allegedly was an Engineer. He married in St Catherines RC church
From his second marriage certificate:
John Drain(widower) 3rd March 1905 married Jane Dobie Buchanon (widow) He gives age 57 she gives age 49. He was a Quarry Foreman, living in Dalbeattie. Since this is a Scottish marriage, we also have (his) Parents Henry Drain general labourer (deceased) Jane Drain maiden surname McLelland (deceased) married in the United Free Church of Scotland

Ok so far TWO fathers names... both different. However, the latter is the more likely since many others are also researching and have come up with similar conclusions. But I am open to other options given that we do have other info. including the note I have attached.

His death certificate was registered by his daughter, the info as follows:
John Drain, Granite Quarrier, foreman 19 Dec 1924 died in Paisley infimary, Fathers name: JOHN Drain masons labourer deceased.

Working on the note he wrote, his mother is Jane McLellan who married Henry.
We found John on 1851 Census age four with Henry and Jane, his sister Janet (Jennet) who is also elusive,  and sister Margaret. this gives his birth year as 1847 in Kirkmaiden.

In 1861 we find John as a 13 year old living with his parents and siblings in Eastwood, Renfrewshire,  his place of birth given as Galloway (close enough to Kirkmaiden).

On the 1871 census he is living with his young wife and baby in Shap, Penrith as a 21 year old.
In 1881 and 1891 John is living in Dalbeattie with his own family as head of the household. 1881 birth place says Scotland, 1891 says Stoneykirk.

1901 sees him living with his daughter and her family, still in Dalbeattie, but this time his place of birth is given as Ireland - which is incidentally where Henry is from.

I can't find him on the 1911 census, but I have a letter written to him in 1915 when he was still living in Dalbeattie.

if Henry and Jane (Jean) are his parents, they were definitely Catholic. all the oher children apart from John and Janet (Jennet) were christened in the Catholic church, so why would good catholic parents NOT baptise their two oldest children. but we cannot find them both on any search.

Any ideas or help would be grateful, it's driving both myself an my cousin daft... we wake up in the early hours to search before work!

Thank you in advance for reading

[LizzieL]

The note contains the date 9th May 1845, whose birth is that?

[LizzieL]

Have you found Henry and Jane's marriage? I can't find it on Scotland's people.
The only Henry Drain marriage I can find around the right time is to Elizabeth Ryan in 1850. I can see Henry and Elizabeth together on 1851 and 1861 censuses, so definitely different couple.

[BevStimpson]

The note contains the date 9th May 1845, whose birth is that?

He was talking about his mothers birth, so we believe he mixed up the year, believing it to be 1825 - his mum (if we go with the Henry and Jean idea) was born 30 Oct 1820 in Kirkmaiden.

Have you found Henry and Jane's marriage? I can't find it on Scotland's people.
The only Henry Drain marriage I can find around the right time is to Elizabeth Ryan in 1850. I can see Henry and Elizabeth together on 1851 and 1861 censuses, so definitely different couple.

Henry and Jane (Jean) married on 22 Jun 1846 in Our Lady & St Ninian, Newton Stewart, Wigtownshire, Scotland (Catholic Registers)

I have Jean's birth certificate (attached) and the record of the marriage.

[LizzieL]

I was searching on Drain (exact surname) not variants such as Drane.
So that rules out the possibility that Jean was married before and the two oldest children were from first marriage. It does seem strange that the baptisms can't be found. Perhaps so badly mistranscribed that they don't come up on a search.

[larkspur]

Scotlands People
The only Drain baptisms looking at the Catholic selection.1845-1864
At Girvan, the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Elizabeth 6-7-1851 parents Henry Drain and Jane CLELLAN
Glasgow, St Mary Immaculate
20-3-1864 Ellen parents Henry Drain and Jane MCCELLAND
25-8-1861 William parents Henry Drain and Jane MCCLELLAND
Ayr St Margarets
29-3-1857 James parents Henry Drain and Jane MCCLELLAND
Stranraer, St Josephs
25 -1-1849 Margaret parents Henry Drain and Jane MCLELLAN

No John or Jean, sorry.
Is it possible he was born before his parents married?
Is it possible Jane Mc was married had Jean and John, widowed and Married Henry Drain?
for instance
birth
John Mcclelland 24-2-1845 Stranraer, Wigtown parents Thomas Mcclelland and Jane Douglas.
Just trying to think outside the box here, I hope I haven't confused the issue too much.

[LizzieL]

The John Drain who marries Margaret McTurk, states his age as 21 in 1871, so birth about 1850. The John Drain on 1871 (Shap), 1881, 1891 and 1901 (Urr, Dalbeattie) censuses is also consistently born in 1850 - 52. On the 1851 census there is a John Drain born about 1850 in Kirkmaiden, son of William and Sarah. In 1861, the same family has moved to Eastwood. William Drain is a labourer from Ireland born about 1821. One of the children born since the 1851 census is born in Patna. There are so many similarities, I wouldn't be surprised if the two John Drains were related - perhaps William and Henry are brothers. But from ages it looks more likely that this one is the one who married Margaret McTurk. Have you traced Margaret McTurk's family? Could the firstnames of the two fathers have been swopped round?
There is also a John Drain born Kirkmaiden abt 1849 (widower) living on his own in Dalmellington, Waterside, Ayrshire on 1901 census. His occupation is tailor. This is just from transcript on FindMyPast. No images for Scottish censuses available on that site.
Is this a third John Drain?

[BevStimpson]

But from ages it looks more likely that this one is the one who married Margaret McTurk. Have you traced Margaret McTurk's family? Could the firstnames of the two fathers have been swopped round?

I have traced Margaret McTurks family, and her father is James McTurk, born in Dumfries 1820. The confusion is the 3 different names John has for his father, Andrew Henry and John. He also had a brother William who was living with John and his family in Dalbeattie in 1881 age 17 his birthplace is given as Glasgow, which fits with the family of Henry on the 1861 census in Eastwood, We think that since his father had died before John's daughter was born, when she went to register john's death in 1924 she assumed that he was named after his father, hence the name John on the death certificate. It doesn't explain why John himself gives his fathers name as Andrew on his first marriage and Henry on his second marriage though.

[lizdb]

My first reaction was that he was probably illegitimate (son of a Miss Drain, who was born 1845) and that he made up a father for his marriage cert. Did the same for his second marriage, just that he'd forgotten what name he used first time around, so used another.