Author Topic: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98  (Read 11802 times)

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98
« Reply #9 on: Friday 29 May 15 18:38 BST (UK) »
This is a complicated family with little information.  I have the 1901 census with the 3 children - Alfred is my grandfather, but became estranged from the family and by the 40s, disappeared off the scene altogether.  Piecing together scraps of family stories has helped a little bit.  Violet was always referred to as his half sister.  I found Violet and Alfred as schoolchildren boarding with different families in Newbury, Berks in 1911, but cannot find Ann Campbell, who may have remarried, or have been in an institution.  The 1901 address became a business property, so is not listed at all for 1911.  I could not find the sibling John in 1911 so he may have died or been transported, or, as is the danger with all the digitised records, been transcribed wrongly.  I did find a John of the correct age in the 1911 census, but when I went to the original records, the age had been copied incorrectly.  My mother has never heard any reference to this brother either.

What we do know is that Ann Campbell at some point fell down some stairs and then lived in an asylum, so I assume that she was mentally or physically incapacitated or both. No idea when this happened, although my grandfather did visit her in the late 20s.  Of course, inmates were often only listed by initial so it's difficult to find her or her death.  She may have had the accident before 1911, which would explain why the children were boarded out and attending school in another town.  But why Newbury?  No idea.

Going back to the 1901 census, all 3 children were show as born in Pancras, London, but in fact John was born in Bloomsbury - I have his birth certificate.  Violet was born in Pancras in 1900 - I have her birth certificate too.  The Govt Records Office cannot find a birth cert for Alfred for Pancras or West London generally.

The mystery is Alfred's parents - presumably Ann nee Crook and AN Other.  On Alfred's marriage cert, he states that his father is 'a gentleman, deceased' which does not fit with a commercial traveller, deceased! Fantasy or fact?  There was also a family story that his father was a doctor, but whether a medical or clerical one, or an exaggeration (perhaps some medical connection?) we don't know.  I could not find Ann Crook in the 1891 census, but did find Ann Croak (who I think is Crook - the handwriting is shaky) visiting a family in Harley St, that made me think that the mystery father might have had Harley St connections, and someone somewhere has surmised, rightly or wrongly, that he was therefore a doctor.

I thought that the parish records themselves, rather than digitised online records, might shed some light on Ann Crook, possibly marrying another rather than John Campbell.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98
« Reply #10 on: Friday 29 May 15 18:44 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all the suggestion flying in.

Alfred Campbell was born 10th Oct 1896 according to himself, his RAF service records, and his death certificate. Doesn't make it fact, but it is what he thought it was, I suppose.  With his 'father' John Campbell dying when he was only 4 or 5, and then his mother being institutionalised, he may have never known or had any paperwork concerning himself.

He was Alfred Campbell for years, and on his marriage certificate, then suddenly started to call himself Alfred Claude Campbell by 1930.  No idea why or whether Claude is a clue.  Perhaps it was just to distinguish himself from another Alfred Campbell at the time?
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98
« Reply #11 on: Friday 29 May 15 18:47 BST (UK) »
Thanks Groom.

I may look up that Alfred John Campbell in Shoreditch, but if he pops up again in 1911 as Alfred John then he won't be my Alfred, who was in Newbury then.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98
« Reply #12 on: Friday 29 May 15 20:07 BST (UK) »
I'm afraid I can't see any Crook/Cambell marriages anywhere. They may not have married.

Were you looking online or at the actual parish register?  I have drawn a blank using online sources to find any Ann Crook marriage to anyone at all.
Crook, Bannister, Warren


Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98
« Reply #13 on: Friday 29 May 15 20:10 BST (UK) »
Thanks Groom.

I may look up that Alfred John Campbell in Shoreditch, but if he pops up again in 1911 as Alfred John then he won't be my Alfred, who was in Newbury then.

Alfred John's birthday (Sep 1897) is too close to 'my' Alfred's brother John's birthday of Oct 1897.  So not him, but thanks for the tip.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 30 May 15 12:57 BST (UK) »
I have trawled the ineternet and found this useful website
http://www.wiltshirebmd.org.uk/
where you can look up names, years and areas of Wiltshire.  Not all areas and years are covered, but when I searched for Ann Crook under marriages for all areas over a spread of years, I obtained these results (all for Annie Crook - but her daughter was named Violet Annie Louise Campbell, so perhaps Ann Crook was known as Annie?).

http://www.wiltshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi

I have yet to search for other info, but I certainly didn't find any of this on LDS or ancestry.

I hope the link is useful to all of those searching Wiltshire records but cannot get to Chippenham records office easily to view the microfiches.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline rosie99

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Re: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 30 May 15 13:15 BST (UK) »

Going back to the 1901 census, all 3 children were show as born in Pancras, London, but in fact John was born in Bloomsbury - I have his birth certificate.  Violet was born in Pancras in 1900 - I have her birth certificate too.  The Govt Records Office cannot find a birth cert for Alfred for Pancras or West London generally.

On Alfred's marriage cert, he states that his father is 'a gentleman, deceased' which does not fit with a commercial traveller, deceased! Fantasy or fact?   


The 1901 gives their place of birth as London and a squiggle that looks like a U (possibly unknown .)

Presumably the marriage cert does not give a name for his father  :-\
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 30 May 15 13:45 BST (UK) »
Thanks Rosie99.

You're right - I checked my notes and I have obviously just invented the Pancras reference!  I mixed it up with the 1901 address.

I took that squiggle to mean W for West London, rather than London with U for unknown area.  The letter matches the W of Wiltshire and the W of widow in other places.

In the 1911 census, the two children (Alfred and Violet) are both shown as from London with no further detail.

On Alfred's marriage cert, it states John Campbell deceased as his father, but the occupation (gentleman) does not match that of the John Campbell (commercial traveller) on his brother's and sister's birth certificates.  I'm assuming gentleman means someone living on their own means?  Perhaps Alfred had delusions of grandeur?  Presumably you could give any info you liked as no-one would check.

On the 1901 census, there is another person in the household who is listed as a domestic servant.  I wonder if she was more than that, and wonder if she filled in the census and didn't know where the children were born exactly.  It all depends on when Ann Campbell became incapacitated.  I looked up the servant's whereabouts in 1911 (easy to find from her age and place of birth) and she turned up running a boarding house with her sister (I think it was) in another part of London.  So she didn't stay with the Campbell household.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline rosie99

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Re: Lookup please Ann Crook in Calne born 1867/8; married 1891-98
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 30 May 15 14:51 BST (UK) »
You are right it does look like other W's on the same page.   I would not necessarily take it as an abbreviation for West though, the two births you have are more central / north london though they have only been dittoed.  :-\

It was not unusual for people to 'elevate the position' of their father on marriage certificates particularly when they were illegitimate  :)   I wonder whether John Campbell had died before 1901 or whether 'Widow' was just a cover for his absence.  Maybe the servant who was with the family in 1901 was just staying there and worked elsewhere. 

It does not help with so many facts we can't confirm does it.  :(
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk