Author Topic: Finding my family  (Read 2353 times)

Offline John Adams

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Finding my family
« on: Thursday 04 June 15 19:44 BST (UK) »
Hi
My name is John Adams and I am searching for my family who originate from Ireland. I have little information but do have lots of letters and names which refer a lot to Malin Head. My mothers name was Anne Collins (married name Adams), she was around 43 when she died in Salford, England in 1966, I think was from Malin Head in Donegal. My fathers name was James William Adams, who was around 74 when he died in Salford, Endland, he was probably from Londonderry. It was a mixed religion marriage and their past was never talked about, hence the lack of information.
I am just at the start of my search and would very much appreciate any assistance/advice/information about where to start looking.

Thanks
John

Offline davidft

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Re: Finding my family
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 04 June 15 19:57 BST (UK) »
I think it may be a good idea to post on the Ireland board (the mods may move your post for you)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/ireland/
or
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/ireland-resources/


also if you do an internet search you will find several sites to help such a

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1408347

http://www.rootsireland.ie/?gclid=CNbt-p3a9sUCFW3LtAodiVkAUg

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

http://timeline.ie/tracing-irish-ancestors-online/irish-births-marriages-and-death-records/

amongst others

(I am not good at looking for Irish relatives so I will let someone else see if they can help)

Good luck
James Stott c1775-1850. James was born in Yorkshire but where? He was a stonemason and married Elizabeth Archer (nee Nicholson) in 1794 at Ripon. They lived thereafter in Masham. If anyone has any suggestions or leads as to his birthplace I would be interested to know. I have searched for it for years without success. Thank you.

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Finding my family
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 04 June 15 20:09 BST (UK) »
Hi John,


Your 1st step would be to obtain your parents marriage cert. which will give their respective father's name, age, occupation & of course the age of each parent when they married..

This will help in tracing their birth certs. which will confirm father's name, occupation & will then give you mothers maiden name.

I think James William Adams should be easy to find..................always a bonus when there's a middle name  ;D

You haven't said when your father died for us to work out his birth year.

If you have relevent info. with names/dates/areas etc. you can post them to give us an insight.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline mosiefish

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Re: Finding my family
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 04 June 15 20:11 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Welcome to Rootschat. 

Is this your fathers death although the christian names are reversed?

William James Adams born 12th October, 1913 died March 1990 Salford aged 76. Its the only one I can find in Salford. 

Mo
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Lancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton
Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peak(e)
Devon: Martin, Walter(s)


Offline davidft

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Re: Finding my family
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 04 June 15 22:19 BST (UK) »

This is possibly the death reference for Anne (from GRO indexes) and so a little older than suggested

Anne Adams
Birth Date:abt 1918
Date of Registration:Sep 1966
Age at Death:48
Registration district:Manchester
Inferred County:Lancashire
Volume:10e
Page:10
James Stott c1775-1850. James was born in Yorkshire but where? He was a stonemason and married Elizabeth Archer (nee Nicholson) in 1794 at Ripon. They lived thereafter in Masham. If anyone has any suggestions or leads as to his birthplace I would be interested to know. I have searched for it for years without success. Thank you.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Finding my family
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 04 June 15 22:56 BST (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat, John  :)

If you click on 'report to moderator' this topic can be moved to Ireland-General (not the Ireland Resources board mentioned earlier which is not for queries).

Is this your father's death in the index?
William James Adams born 12th October, 1913 died March 1990 Salford aged 76.

If so, I've got good news and bad news. I found a birth registration for William James Adams 12 Oct.1913 in Limavady district, Bellarena sub-district (in Co. Londonderry, east of Derry city) but unfortunately it looks as though he might have been illegitimate which makes his connections much harder to trace.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Cell

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Re: Finding my family
« Reply #6 on: Friday 05 June 15 02:21 BST (UK) »
Hi John and welcome to rootschat,

You asked where can you start to look and  that you are at the beginning of your research. I'll assume you are an absolute beginner (apologies if you're not):
 
I'd first start with obtaining your parents marriage certificate ( as previously mentioned), this will give you the names of the fathers of the couple and their occupations ( who they, the couple ,say who their fathers are - the info of these fathers on the certificates  may or may not be correct.  Many a time, people have been known to make up a father's names on their marriage cert)
It will also give you the ages of the couple and occupation( sometimes this can be "of full age" or "minor" instead of an exact age,)
It will give you the addresses of the couple. There will also be witness signatures - sometimes these witness signatures can turn out to be family and can also be very useful.


Do you know if they married in England or Ireland?

This  link below is a Free site to search for births , marriages and deaths (BMD's) within England and Wales
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl  It is transcribed by volunteers , and is not complete, but it is totally invaluable to most researchers.

The complete indexes online( except for the very recent BMD's) are available on FindMyPast http://www.findmypast.co.uk/  and Ancestry http://home.ancestry.co.uk/  to name just two of them. These are subscription sites, but at the moment I believe Ancestry UK is having a free weekend which may help you (link to a thread in the common room of this site) http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=722223.0

Then To order an English or Welsh certificate  you will need  to order off the GRO Of England and Wales http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

If they married in Northern Ireland this is the link to Northern Ireland direct where you can search for marriages that are older than 75 years old (births 100 yrs, deaths 50yrs ) and view online for a few credits https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
unlike England and Wales, N Ireland GRO have privacy rules to protect the living  with their BMD's and you will not be able to find a recentish marriage in the NI GRO BMD indexes online

There's a very good chance that your parents married after 1940 (within  75 years) , but if they married in N Ireland you can fill out and order a marriage cert . you can estimate when they were married. They will usually search around 7 years . There is a box there that says something along the lines of additional supporting  information. You can fill this out and say that it's your parents marriage and where you believe they may have married etc. I've never had a problem ordering recent births and marriages with Groni ( In the past I have filled out that I'm the daughter , granddaughter of etc and where I think they married or born etc and anything else that I can think of, sometimes I had  the exact dates , others were just an estimate)
You can also get in contact with GRONI  by phone, or email
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/government-citizens-and-rights/order-life-event-certificates/order-a-marriage-certificate.htm

The not so recent N Irish BMD indexes, such as your father's birth references, can be viewed for free at the above familysearch site that daviddf has provided you with (also on the subscription sites such as Ancestry) . The birth  entry info that aghadowey has kindly found for you, if it's your father's, you can view his birth cert online (by purchasing credits) from the above link , this should give you his mother's name (and father's name and occupation if any, but like aghadowey has said , it does look like an illegitimate birth) and where exactly he was born such as an address. (also  who registered the birth)

With your mother's birth it  looks like it falls just within the 100 yrs if the above is her death. If you're sure she was born in N Ireland, you can order the cert with GRONI, and put an estimate date of 1918 (date taken from death index that David has posted) and a father's name in supporting evidence - as Ann (e) is not an uncommon name as with Collins ( hence coming back to it may be a good idea to try and obtain their marriage cert first)

 I do apologise if you know all this, but many times people will kindly give  references such as BMD info but sometimes forget to explain where the novice can get the BMD info and certs from for themselves.

Kind Regards :)


Census information in my posts are crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.u

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Finding my family
« Reply #7 on: Friday 05 June 15 07:48 BST (UK) »
I can't see a likely marriage in England for your parents but based on 2 Dublin births that I found (we aren't allowed to post details of living people but you'll know who these are if I've the correct family) it's more likely that you parents were married either in Ireland or Northern Ireland. I checked N.I. marriages 1935-1940 without a match for Adams/Collins but the marriage could have taken place 1941/1942. Also checked Irish records (indexes go up to 1958) but too many choices to narrow down a likely one.

Once you make 2 posts then you'll be able to send and receive PMs (Personal Messages) to communicate with others for details that can't be/you don't want posted.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline jbml

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Re: Finding my family
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 07 June 15 10:45 BST (UK) »
I would counsel going slowly and carefully, one step at a time. Obtain the certificates at every stage rather than relying upon the index alone. They contain a lot of useful information. Cross-check and double check the information on each certificate against everything else that you know, and make sure that it tallies or that you can account for any discrepancies.

The marriage certificate will be your first key document (although I would suggest getting the death certificates at the same time - as the first rule of family history research is "always kill off your ancestors"!!). It will tell you:

- the date of marriage
- the place of marriage
- the name of each party to the marriage, their condition (whether bachelor / spinster, or widow / widower), their age (although it often just says "of full age"), their residence at the time of marriage, and their occupation
- the name and occupation of their fathers (although this may be blank; and bear in mind that the mere fact the father is named doesn't mean he was still alive)
- it will show their signature, or have their mark if they were illiterate (rare in the 20th century, less rare in the 19th)
- it will have the names and signatures of the witnesses to the marriage. These MIGHT be relatives  or close family friends, but they need not be. Where they are relatives they can often be the clue needed to resolve another conundrum at a later date.

It will also tell you whether they married according to the rites of the Roman Catholic church or the Established church (i.e. Church of England), or some other marriage ceremony, and whether the marriage was by licence, certificate or banns. If it was by licence, you may be able to obtain copies of the licence papers, which may tell you something more about them.

Having got your parents' marriage certificate, you will then want to identify and obtain their birth certificates. These will tell you:

- the date and place of birth
- the name(s) (but not surname) if any (you can register a birth before naming a child, so this might be blank)
- whether a boy or a girl
- the name and surname of the father
- the name, surname and maiden surname of the mother
- the father's occupation
- the signature, description and residence of the informant
- when registered
- the signature of the registrar
- any name entered after registration (only used if the "Name, if any" column is blank)

You will see that the details given of the father should enable you to cross-reference this to the marriage certificate, in order to check that the name matches. If it does not, then something is wrong. If all is well, however, they will tally, and you are starting to build up a documentary record of your family.

You will now know the names of your grandparents and, more critically, your grandmothers' maiden names. This should enable you to search for your grandparents' marriage certificates, and be fairly confident that you have the right ones when you find them. This, in turn, should tell you your great grandfathers' names, and you then repeat the process of looking for birth certificates, and so it goes on.

At this stage, I would "kill off" your grandparents - i.e. look for their death certificates; and when you have them, see if any of them left a will. If so, obtain a copy. If you're lucky, it will tell you a lot about other family members - particularly their children (your uncles and aunts). Do not assume that they have necessarily names all of your uncles and aunts in their will; but you can, at least, be confident that anyone recognized in the will and described as their child is likely to be an uncle or an aunt.

Once you get to people living in 1911, you can start looking for them on the census. The 1911 census has by far the most information of all of them and you can view a digital reproduction of the actual return completed by the householder. It contains, amongst other things, information as to how long a married couple have been married (invaluable in trying to identify the correct marriage) and how many children have been born alive in the marriage (both total number, and numbers still living and now dead). Earlier censuses (1901, 1891, 1881, 1871, 1861, 1851, 1841) have progressively less information, but nevertheless help to identify family units and relationships.

The difficulty you're likely to encounter, though, is that your family lines are in Ireland. The Irish Public Records Office in Dublin was used as an ammunition store during the Civil War, and in 1922 it was hit by an artillery shell. The resultant explosion destroyed most of the records, and therefore the available material pre-1922 for Ireland is far more fragmentary than that which we enjoy here in England. You find yourself having to rely upon parish records almost immediately, and you will need to learn your way around the Irish records. The people in the Ireland section here should be able to help you with this, as they have all faced the same difficulties.

Best of luck with your search. I hope the records will be benign, and you will be able to learn something about your family. I never knew either of my grandfathers, and that is why I started researching my family: I wanted to know more about them. Well, now I do, and a fascinating story it is ...
All identified names up to and including my great x5 grandparents: Abbot Andrews Baker Blenc(h)ow Brothers Burrows Chambers Clifton Cornwell Escott Fisher Foster Frost Giddins Groom Hardwick Harris Hart Hayho(e) Herman Holcomb(e) Holmes Hurley King-Spooner Martindale Mason Mitchell Murphy Neves Oakey Packman Palmer Peabody Pearce Pettit(t) Piper Pottenger Pound Purkis Rackliff(e) Richardson Scotford Sherman Sinden Snear Southam Spooner Stephenson Varing Weatherley Webb Whitney Wiles Wright