Author Topic: Defintition of 'Marksmen' in 'Select Committee on Fictitious Votes' records??  (Read 4679 times)

Offline PabloC

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Afternoon,

I have located an 1837 entry within the 'Reports from Committees, Fictitious Votes (Ireland), Select Committee on Fictitious Votes, 1837-1838' record set on FindMyPast in respect of an ancestor where he is listed within the section subtitled 'Register of Marksmen'.

I would be grateful if someone might be able to advise the context in which the term 'Marksmen' is used here please. Is it, as I am thinking a marksman as in a sharpshooter?

Paul
Arnold - Liverpool
Bennett-Co. Down, Ireland
Clisham-Liverpool/Ireland
Cox - Shropshire/Flintshire
Cuddy - Liverpool/Ireland
Dunne - Co. Laois, Ireland
Glue -Sussex
Guest - Staffordshire
Hughes - Co.Laios, Ireland
Jordan - Co.Down, Ireland
Lancaster - Cumberland
Manion - Liverpool/Galway, Ireland
Pearson - Cumberland
Vallely - Co.Louth, Ireland

Offline Rena

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Re: Defintition of 'Marksmen' in 'Select Committee on Fictitious Votes' records??
« Reply #1 on: Friday 05 June 15 12:39 BST (UK) »
Have you seen the various meanings on this old occupation list which gives several meanings for the word?

http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/m.html

1. Sharpshooter

2. One who marks out land.
     1654 in Sir W. Petty Down Surv. iii. (1851) 16 The admeasurers...paid
      little for their diet and lodging, bounders, marksmen, spademen, &c.

3. One who makes a mark in place of a signature.
      1777 Nicholson & Burn Hist. Westmoreld. & Cumberl. II. 324 note, In the
      Original Solemn League and Covenant..there are abundance of marksmen,
      all of whom, from their abhorrence of popery....leave the cross unfinished.
      1813 Col. Bagwell Sp. Ho. Comm. 24 Feb., Of these 3000 names, none were
      marksmen.
      1885 T. Hughes in Law Times LXXX. 45/1 The..drover who signed the
       contract was a marksman.

4. A grade or degree amongst Orangemen.
1800 in Orange Syst. Exposed (1823) 81, I will keep this part of a
Marksman from an Orangeman, as well as from the ignorant... I will be
aiding and assisting to all true honest Orange Marksmen.
1813 Gen. Hist. in Ann. Reg. 93/2 The oath of a Marchman or Marksman,
the name of one further initiated in their secrets.

5. One who ranges competitors in a race.
1887 M. Shearman Athletics & Football 57 The starter is helped by a
'marksman', who places the men on the scratch.
1897 Encycl. Sport I. 62 s.v. Athletics.

6. 1901 Blackw. Mag. Nov. 660/1 The 'Marksman'..whose function it is to
superintend the marking of the Forest Ponies.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline PabloC

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Re: Defintition of 'Marksmen' in 'Select Committee on Fictitious Votes' records??
« Reply #2 on: Friday 05 June 15 13:18 BST (UK) »
Thank you Rena,

I had actually forgotten about that site...been a bit inactive on the research front of late!

I suspect it is more likely to be No. 2, as in 'one who marks out land'.

Paul
Arnold - Liverpool
Bennett-Co. Down, Ireland
Clisham-Liverpool/Ireland
Cox - Shropshire/Flintshire
Cuddy - Liverpool/Ireland
Dunne - Co. Laois, Ireland
Glue -Sussex
Guest - Staffordshire
Hughes - Co.Laios, Ireland
Jordan - Co.Down, Ireland
Lancaster - Cumberland
Manion - Liverpool/Galway, Ireland
Pearson - Cumberland
Vallely - Co.Louth, Ireland


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Defintition of 'Marksmen' in 'Select Committee on Fictitious Votes' records??
« Reply #3 on: Friday 05 June 15 13:22 BST (UK) »
Afternoon,

I have located an 1837 entry within the 'Reports from Committees, Fictitious Votes (Ireland), Select Committee on Fictitious Votes, 1837-1838' record set on FindMyPast in respect of an ancestor where he is listed within the section subtitled 'Register of Marksmen'.

If there's a whole section listed as 'Register of Marksmen' then I'd be inclined to doubt it was an occupation.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Rena

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Re: Defintition of 'Marksmen' in 'Select Committee on Fictitious Votes' records??
« Reply #4 on: Friday 05 June 15 13:59 BST (UK) »
As it's Ireland, my first thought was that it had something to do with the Lodges of Orange men.

The other thought that I had was it could be some sort of old Guild or Association of Heritors something similar to the situation of the Dartmoor/Exmoor ponies where only registered people are allowed to mark/sell the ponies.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Defintition of 'Marksmen' in 'Select Committee on Fictitious Votes' records??
« Reply #5 on: Friday 05 June 15 15:05 BST (UK) »
I'm wondering if it doesn't refer to definition #3-
3. One who makes a mark in place of a signature.

However, it's probably best to consult what Find My Past gives as an explanation since it is their database.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Defintition of 'Marksmen' in 'Select Committee on Fictitious Votes' records??
« Reply #6 on: Friday 05 June 15 15:12 BST (UK) »
I think it concerns vote-rigging, as used to be said in Ulster, "Vote Early & Vote Often!"

Skoosh.

Online gaffy

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Re: Defintition of 'Marksmen' in 'Select Committee on Fictitious Votes' records??
« Reply #7 on: Friday 05 June 15 15:16 BST (UK) »
The descriptor "marksmen" applied to those unable to write and thus made their mark instead of a signature, it's as simple as that.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Defintition of 'Marksmen' in 'Select Committee on Fictitious Votes' records??
« Reply #8 on: Friday 05 June 15 15:22 BST (UK) »
I think it concerns vote-rigging, as used to be said in Ulster, "Vote Early & Vote Often!"

Skoosh.
The saying actually is attributed to Chicago in America-
http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~geoff/classes/hmc.cs070.200401/votequote.html
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!