Author Topic: 1848 Medal Retrospective for 1793-1814  (Read 8833 times)

Offline peterd500

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Re: 1848 Medal Retrospective for 1793-1814
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 25 July 15 13:44 BST (UK) »
I found Roger GILLISPIE in the 1861 census at Ancestry.com

His name was GIFLISPIE in the indexing but the actual census page has GILLISPIE..

He was a widower, age 74, a pensioner R.H. Artillery, born Renfrewshire, Scotland.

He was the only person in the household.

So his census info 1841, 1851, and 1861 all have him born Scotland.

Offline Regorian

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Re: 1848 Medal Retrospective for 1793-1814
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 25 July 15 14:08 BST (UK) »
Montevideo would have been 1807. Evidently, he missed the Battle of Leipzig 16-18th October 1813 probably  due to his Peninsular wounds.
Griffiths Llandogo, Mitcheltroy, Mon. and Whitchurch Here (Also Edwards),  18th C., Griffiths FoD 19th Century.

Offline bramhallbill

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Re: 1848 Medal Retrospective for 1793-1814
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 25 July 15 15:56 BST (UK) »
Roger married the widow in 1814.He wrote his name in the marriage entry as Gillispie & is later on the censuses as Roger Gillespie born in Scotland. He is the one with the medal. The  Drumbo Gillespie has a service record but no mention of medal. Our relatives are split but the obituary is a great indication. It was hanging on a Gillespie wall in Canada!!
Widow Frances Hutton nee Keeble just made a x a mark in the entry. Her former husband served with Roger. The curate made the Utting hash for Hutton
Borodenko, Kalmus, Lobanenko, Chaplenko. Basko.
Robson,Gillespie,Sentence, Edgar, Gildert

Offline peterd500

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Re: 1848 Medal Retrospective for 1793-1814
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 28 July 15 07:32 BST (UK) »
No, Roger GILLESPIE/GILLISPIE is definitely in census info 1841 1851 1861 as GILLISPIE not GILLESPIE.  The 'i' is easy to read and is dotted each time.

If there are two Roger GILLESPIE, then they both resided at Woodbridge, which would be a heck of a coincidence if they were different men.  Bear with me.

Roger GILLESPIE's discharge papers clearly state that he enlisted Jan 1805, was born at Drumbo, served 15 years + 212 days (i.e. finished up in 1820) and that he got 2 years added to his service record because of his service at Waterloo, so the Drumbo man was at Waterloo all right.

And we have a Roger GILLESPIE listed in a small detachment as part of Whinyates' Rocket Troop, part of a list of all who took part at Waterloo.  My reading of the list says that Roger enlisted 4 Nov 1804.

i.e.

Ancestry.com
UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949 
Muster Roll of the Officers, Non Commissioned Officers and Privates of the Royal Horse and Foot Artillery under the command of Colonel Sir Geo. Adam Wood who served in the Battle of Waterloo or in the Actions which immediately preceeded it.
...Royal Horse Artillery.
...Sub Unit: Major Whinyates (Rocket) Troop
...Troop: Detachment Rl Horse Artillery
Rank, Names, Dates of Enlistment.
Gunner, Wm A??den, 1 May 1804
Gunner, Roger GILLESPIE, 4 Nov 180[4?]
Gunner, William TICHNER, 25 Augt 180[5]?
Gunner, Henry EDWARDS, 26 Novr 180[5]?
Gunner, John HELM?, 21 Aug 1809
Driver, ? S MADDISON, 2 Oct 1811.

The census information of the man living at Woodbridge, wife Fanny in 1841 and Frances in 1851, clearly states that he was a Chelsea pensioner with service in the Royal Horse Artillery, and we have the fantastic obituary in the Ipswich newspaper that lists where he fought and says that he lived at Woodbridge.
1841 "Army P"
1851 "Pensioner R. H. Artillery Chelsea"
1861 "Pensioner R. H. Artillery.
This man died age 84 late in 1870 indicating birth circa 1886.

The man who was born at Drumbo enlisted at age 18 in 1805, indicating birth approximately 1787, or 1786 if he hadn't yet had his birthday for the year in which he enlisted.

It is so hard to believe that the man born at Drumbo and the man born at Glasgow are not the same man, although the differing enlistment dates don't help either.

The discharge papers for the man born Drumbo # H2254 say Roger was discharged 31 July 1820 and admitted on the pension list on 1 Aug 1920 at 1s per day.

Ancestry.com has a list of Horse Artillery Chelsea pensioners.  Includes Roger GILLESPIE # 2254H admitted 1 Aug 1820 at 1s per day, residence Woodbridge.   Says he died 27/11/71 which is the right day but out by a year which probably doesn't matter in that it seems to be merely a simple mistake.  The report in the Ipswich journal is dated 3/12/70 (a Saturday)  and says he was to be buried that afternoon.

Surely the above confirms the man born at Drumbo  in the discharge papers as the man at Woodbridge who gave his birthplace as Scotland in census data.

An easy explanation is that Roger was born at Drumbo but brought up Glasgow way in Scotland which is what he remembered. Or born Scotland but raised at Drumbo which is what he at first remembered until finding out he was actually born in Scotland.   Maybe his father was also a military man and could have served in Ireland..   Who knows.

A complication is that in the 1861 census Roger is listed as a widower.

07 Apr 1861 Census of England & Wales
@Mile Hill Lane, Woodbridge, Suffolk
Roger GILLISPIE, Head, Widr, 74 Pensioner, R.H. Artillery b. Renfrewshire, Scotland

Yet in researchers' databases they have his wife deceased 1869 as follows.

FreeBMD
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Deaths 4Q 1869, GILLESPIE Frances, 82, Woodbridge 4a, 421

I can't find any GILLESPIE or GILLISPIE at FreeBMD died Suffolk between 1851 and 1861. The only ones who died Suffolk between 1861 and 1871 are Frances 1869 age 82, Roger 1870 age 84, and Elizabeth 1871 age 43.

Peter


peter



Offline bramhallbill

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Re: 1848 Medal Retrospective for 1793-1814
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 28 July 15 16:51 BST (UK) »
Thanks Peter
I cant get the link to Chelsea Pensioners on Ancestry sends me to soldiers in Canada.
Help on that please
The pension for 2254H sends you to Antrim
The records for Antrim Gillespie were lost & they worked back trying to recreate....perhaps thats wht dates of enlistment differ
Borodenko, Kalmus, Lobanenko, Chaplenko. Basko.
Robson,Gillespie,Sentence, Edgar, Gildert

Offline peterd500

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Re: 1848 Medal Retrospective for 1793-1814
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 28 July 15 20:23 BST (UK) »
It does say it's a UK Royal Hospital Chelsea register of Soldiers who served in Canada 1743-1882 as the description of the Index at Ancestry.

When you read along the top of the page that comes up for Roger there is no hint of Canada, just a description 'Regiment of Horse Artillery.' 

The date 1 Aug 1820 given in the Date of Admission column has to refer to the date Roger was admitted to the ranks of the Chelsea pensioners because we know from his discharge paper that that was the date he was admitted on the pension list. The location Woodbridge with Ipswich under it appears in the residence column.  Woodbridge is very close to Ipswich so I think it means Woodbridge near Ipswich. Other yearly columns give space to say where a man was living from 1845 to 1854 but generally they weren't used on the page that has Roger.

There is a bit more shorthand-type writing regarding Roger GILLESPIE but at this stage I don't know what it means, i.e.,

Ipswich G  62.000/23

Might be a reference number associated with the discharge and Ipswich could mean where where he was discharged?  Isn't on the discharge paper though. 


peter

Offline peterd500

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Offline bramhallbill

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Re: 1848 Medal Retrospective for 1793-1814
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 29 July 15 00:06 BST (UK) »
Wow ! Cheers Peter. Previously we knew the Woodbridge link & RA. Roger Married in 1814 in Woodbridge & his children were baptised in
1814 William -Woodbridge,
1819 Fanny, St Lukes Old Charlton
1819 Henry ---------do---------------
1821 George   Woodbridge !!!
1823 William (2)     --do--- !!!
1825 Frances   ALDBORO George & William Re baptised !!!!!
1828 James   Woodbridge + Samuel & Thomas later

In Aldboro Roger was a Servant

The Pension list clearly shows it was drawn from Woodbridge ....so it is cast iron really
The Q of Ireland & Scotland is ???
Roger's accent would have been a give away.
Different start dates is ok as actual service record was reconstructed & it said so in WO records
Injury at Waterloo ties up with both Irish record has Roger a bombardier....roll Gunner

Going forward.....Finding dob & parents......big task

Thanks again
Borodenko, Kalmus, Lobanenko, Chaplenko. Basko.
Robson,Gillespie,Sentence, Edgar, Gildert

Offline bramhallbill

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Re: 1848 Medal Retrospective for 1793-1814
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 29 July 15 00:11 BST (UK) »
1s a day? missed seeing that
Borodenko, Kalmus, Lobanenko, Chaplenko. Basko.
Robson,Gillespie,Sentence, Edgar, Gildert