Richard James Roberts

[doonayr]

I have been searching for several years for the above.   Born in Ireland he ultimately lived in Dundee and worked as a gasfitter or plumber.  This would be in the late 1800's.   His wife was Ann Roberts, I have her records  He had a son William Peter for whom I have records.   There must be a death registration somewhere for him but after zero success on Scotland's People I have given up.   Perhaps I am not looking in the right places.   Some help would be most appreciated. 

[Forfarian]

Have you got the family in any censuses, and if so when and where? What was his wife's maiden name, when did she die, and was she described as married or widowed?

[doonayr]

I have Peter Roberts, his son , on the 1901 census.   72 Princes St.  Dundee  His wife Elizabeth and children, Robert. Joseph and Nora.
I also have death cert. for his wife Ann Roberts, nee Cavanagh  Cert. has it as Keveney which is wrong.   She is listed as widow.   Died July 6th, 1912.
Ann had to be his second wife.   Peter, his son was born in Ireland.    There was a daughter, Agnes born Scotland to him and Ann Cavanagh.   I can not find either on any census.  They have avoided the census, why I don't know.

[Forfarian]

I have Peter Roberts, his son , on the 1901 census.

How old was Peter and where did he say he was born? And is he the William Peter you mentioned in your first post?

I also have death cert. for his wife Ann Roberts, nee Cavanagh  Cert. has it as Keveney which is wrong.   She is listed as widow.   Died July 6th, 1912.

How old was she, and who was the informant?

Ann had to be his second wife.

How do you know that?

There was a daughter, Agnes born Scotland to him and Ann Cavanagh.

 
When was she born and where?

I wonder if they were one of these families who moved back and forth to and from Ireland?

So far the only concrete information we have about him in this thread is that he died before 1912.

How do you know he worked in Dundee if you have not found him in any census? How do you know he was a plumber/gasfitter? How do you know that his wife's surname was Cavanagh not Keveney, and why do you think the informant got it 'wrong'? Was/were Peter/William Peter the son of Ann Cavanagh or Keveney? So many questions, but if you don't tell us all the details you already have, it makes it difficult for us to know what else to suggest.

[ev]

Hi ,

Was Peter Roberts married to Elizabeth Small 1892 St Andrew(Dundee) , Angus ?

The 1901 Census has Peter Roberts b. c1873 Ireland with Eliz S Roberts b. c1875 Dundee Angus with Robert b. c1893 , Joseph b. c1896 , and Norah b. 1899(All born Dundee).

Is that the family you have in 1901 ?



ev

[Forfarian]

Was Peter Roberts married to Elizabeth Small 1892 St Andrew(Dundee) , Angus ?

If this is your Peter, have you got the marriage certificate? Because the marriage certificate should tell you whether Peter's father was deceased. Either way, this would constrain the possible dates for his death.

[MonicaL]

Ann had to be his second wife.   Peter, his son was born in Ireland.    There was a daughter, Agnes born Scotland to him and Ann Cavanagh. 

I can't easily see the birth of Agnes you mentioned in Scotland. If after 1860 or so, Scottish birth certs include the date and place of parents' marriage which may help.

Monica

[doonayr]

Peter is also called William Peter.  He was married to Elizabeth Small.   The census states that he was born in Ireland.   Agnes's daughter gave me quite a bit of information.   She and her mother Agnes emigrated to America and on her mother's naturalization papers it says born in Dundee Scotland.   Her father was Richard James Roberts.   His wife Ann Roberts was Cavanagh before marriage and her daughter Ann Mc Cafferty (married name) signed her death cert.   Her daughter then Cavanagh  was illegitimate and took the Roberts, name when her mother married.   Richard James is listed as gas fitter plumber on both his widow's death cert and on his son's Wm Peters.death  cert.   They may have married in Ireland and moved together to Scotland.   However Richard is an anomaly as I can't find him anywhere.   Ann Roberts died in 1912 widow of Richard James Roberts, Plumber.   William Peter was Ann Cavanagh McCafferty's half brother.  Richard James is not to be found so I have to accept that.   Thanks for all your efforts.

[Forfarian]

I think you have probably given up too soon on this. If you can look again at the evidence you have, and especially at the marriage certificates of Peter and Ann or Agnes, and the census, and Ann's death certificate, and the birth certificate of Ann/Agnes, and get some ages and dates, it may still be possible to find something about him.

Do you have a shred of evidence to show that Richard James Roberts ever set foot in Scotland? He didn't marry or die in Scotland, and you haven't found him in any census in Scotland. Perhaps Ann came to Scotland after his death to live near her daughter?

A quick fiddle with the Scottish death indexes reveals that Ann was aged 59 when she died in 1912. (As you have her death certificate you could have told us that already). The significance of that is that, assuming it to be accurate, she was born in about 1852/1853. Therefore by the time she was old enough to marry, it was after 1864, when civil registration started in Ireland. Therefore there should be a marriage certificate in the Irish records.

As he did not die in Scotland, he may have died in Ireland, in which case there should be an Irish death certificate.

I suggest that you have a good look at the Irish records, because it looks to me as if the answer lies there, not in Scotland.