Missing children - Frail 1940 - 1944 St Bede's Jarrow

[carolmasip]

Hello,
Can anyone suggest anything for the following:

Thomas FRAIL and Helen Hughes, living in Jarrow, had children every one or two years between 1932 and 1944 when Helen died in childbirth.
Have, however, only found records of the following:
- Thomas b. Dec. 1930's, Catherine & Bernard b. 1930's, Peter Hughes b. Mar. 1930's, Irene b. March 1930's and Vincent b. 1930s. all children born 1930's, post edited as they are living people
Can anyone suggest why I can not find records of any children between 1940 and 1944 (have tried variants of surname)? Also, if Helen died in childbirth and the child too, would there be a record of the child (she died January 24th 1944)? Many thanks for any suggestions.

[giggsycat]

Hi

Just a thought - but could Thomas have been away fighting in WW2 between 1940 and 1944?

Do you know how many children they actually had please?

giggsy

[CaroleW]

Also, if Helen died in childbirth and the child too, would there be a record of the child

If the child was stillborn before the 28th week of pregnancy - no online record (present day is 24weeks)

If the child was born after the 28th week alive or stillborn or died later - the birth/death would have had to be registered

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/civilreg.html#Stillbirth

[StanleysChesterton]

Option 1, he was away at War, some people were away the whole time.
Option 2, there were problems with her pregnancies.  After the last successful one she suffered several miscarriages over the years until the final one was a problem that killed her.
Option 3, he wasn't sleeping with her as he was having an affair.... her last pregnancy wasn't actually even with her husband, who she'd not slept with since 1939.

Take your pick ....

[CaroleW]

When and where did this couple marry as I can't see a Frail/Hughes marriage

[dawnsh]

Canada

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=725722.0

[StanleysChesterton]

Canada

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=725722.0

Well, that makes a difference.... if she was in England and he was on boats/possibly in or near Canada, it was nigh on impossible to cross the Atlantic safely due to the War.... so, more likely to have been absent for most of it... at a wild guess.

You didn't go floating about in boats in the Atlantic in those days.

[arky101]

Hi,

I did a "re"-search in the BMD Index and found only 4 children associated with Frail/Hughes marriage, Thomas (1932), Peter H (1936), Irene (1938), Vincent (1939).  Bernard seems to be associated with a Frail/Brockley marriage (1931 birth) or a Frail/Little marriage (1932 birth), and Catherine with a Frail/Shiels Marriage (birth 1932).

Am I missing something re Bernard & Catherine?

[carolmasip]

Many thanks for all the ideas - obvious when pointed out - but which hadn't occurred to me  .
The Frails sailed back to the UK from Canada together in 1931. Thomas Frail (born Jarrow 1905) was thought to have been in the merchant navy so could he have been away 1940 - 1943/4 - are there records for this? Not sure how many children were born in total. Twins Catherine & Bernard were born in 1933 (know this from family and also found records on familysearch.org).
NB. Any record of Thomas Frail (parents John Frail and Ann(ie) McGary/Rowan) sailing to Quebec? (he married Helen Hughes there in 1929 in St Laurent's Church - also on this point - Helen Hughes only arrived in Canada the previous year so any thoughts on why the couple would have returned to the UK (most people were going to Canada to settle and make a new life)? Would they have had to pay their own fares? and any ideas of the cost of a third class ticket in those days?