Author Topic: Gipsy Dan Boswell  (Read 57282 times)

Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #198 on: Saturday 27 February 16 07:04 GMT (UK) »
  Thomson when writing of so called Gipsys of Hawthorne Street Nottingham also talks more     
 

AFFAIRS OF EGYPT  1909


By  Thompson   

 The year 1909 was ushered in by the sequel to the Boxing Day
quarrels of the Gypsies encamped on the Bohemian Estate, Southend, This estate is partly owned and partly rented by about twenty-five or thirty families of Gypsies, who make it their permanent home.two distinct camps : the converted Gypsies, and a varied mob of unregenerate pos-rats and ' mumpers '   
 
 then Thomson goes on to say this about the Elliott's, he seems to know round Lincolnshire 
   
 
                                          AFFAIRS OF EGYPT  1909

By  Thompson   

 engaged in practising  tricks. It is on record that Sarah Elliott and
Mary Ann Smith were fined £10 each at Coventry on May 23 for obtaining
£2, 5s.   for a goat-skin rug by hoaxing and intimidation ; that Alice Elliott
and her niece, Isabella Elliott, were fined  at Knaresborough on September
5 for obtaining £5 from a Boroughbridge publican by means of a trick   
at Willenhall on June 21 for obtaining sums of 18s. and 10s. 6d. by false
pretences. Who these Elliotts were it has been impossible to ascertain. In all
probability they did not belong to the well-known Lincolnshire family, but to an
entirely ;distinct family (and one not renowned for its law-abiding character)
that may sometimes be met with around Bristol or London.                                             


 but who are these Elliott's who new the Smiths and Wiltshire Family's of Nottingham 
 

Nottingham 1918

exciting the road near Lenton Abbey, led to the  appearance in the Nottingham, George Smith, 57, gipsy,  assaulting P.c. John  and damaging his bicycle, Albert Smith, 23, and two young  women Maria  Elliott and Amy Webster, both  Gipsys were also  charged with assault.     


Nottingham 1900

Charles Bacon, gipsy, was summoned for  aiding and abetting
Fred Wiltshire, Richard Elliott. and John Gregory, in trespassing in search of game, on land belonging the Duke of Portland

  having a look at the Gregory family you mentioned, and saw that son Henry appeared to marry a Letty/Letitia/Lettice Wiltshire. This in turn led me to look at the Wiltshire/Wilsher families, and I think I have found out that Richard Smiths wife, Mary, was a Wiltshire.
 Now the age is slightly out, but a Joseph and Lydia Wilsher had a daughter Mary Ann baptised at Normanton on Trent 15th Sep 1816. Then there is a baptism on freereg for Lydia d/o Joseph and Lydia Wiltshire of Saint Ann's St., tin man, Nottingham St. Mary, 22nd Jan 1837. This Lydia would fit agewise with the widowed Lydia Elliott who is with Richard and Mary on the 1871 census and make her sister to Mary.
 Also there is a baptism at Saxilby in 1821 of Thomas s/o Joseph and Liddy Wiltsher and 1813 at Swineshead, Lincs, of Joseph s/o Joseph and Lydia Wilshaw. Joseph marries a Sarah and is in and around Newark and manages to appear on the 1861 census twice, at both Newark and New Sleaford Lincs.   

 
Nottingham 1861

                                                 Petty Sessions
 
May 3rd.— (Before the Rev.. J. D. Beecher, Matilda Elliott and Sarah Wiltshire, two gipsies, were charged by James Carter, draper and grocer, of Upton, with having stolen one print dress, one pair of boots, one pair of shoes, two pairs of socks, and one pair of gloves, on the 30th of April. It appeared that the two women went to the shop of Mr. Carter, of Upton, and asked to be shown some goods, giving their names Smith and Wilkinson, and said that they lived in Upton, they succeeded in obtaining goods to the amount of £5 10s. by false pretences. Information was given to Inspector Home the following day, who shortly afterwards apprehended the prisoners, and found the property upon them. Committed for trial at the next sessions to be holden at Retford.

just  another small piece of information on the evolution leading to the extinction of the stopping fields of Hawthorne street Kings Meadow Road,   



Nottingham1931

                       HORSES RESCUED FROM FIRE.
               ALARMING EARLY MORNING STABLE BLAZE.
          SHOWMAN'S PLUCK. CITY FIRE BRIGADE'S BUSY TIME.


Nottingham 1931

The gallant rescue of two horses from a burning stable in Hawthorne-street, The Meadows, Nottingham, early this morning, was effected by Albert Ashley, a travelling showman, living in a caravan on a piece of waste ground in Hawthorne-street. was at about half-past one when the City Fire Brigade received an alarm from the Arkwright-street box, and they turned out with three engines to the premises William Hill, a firewood dealer, of 94, Briar-street, who rents certain stabling sheds and yard in Hawthorne-street for the purpose his business. There was no doubt about tho necessity for the three engines, for the firemen found the flames had obtained a dangerous hold on the stabling and shed, whilst several tons of old railway sleepers were blazing merrily away. Several people occupy caravans nearby, and so fierce was the heat that the vehicles had to be moved back. Ashley, who was one of the first on the scene, heard the horses whinnying, and he entered the yard and opened the stable-door to liberate the two horses, thus saving them from being burned to death, for the stable was practically gutted.   

Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #199 on: Sunday 28 February 16 09:13 GMT (UK) »
                                      The Story of The Gold Coined People

 there was a portrait photo of my GrandMother, that hung on a wall above what looked to me like a shrine, She was what is known as a Rawney Monition, She was one of the last of the true Gold Coin People, in each ear She had a Gold Sovereign, my Mother said it had to be an half Sovereign for the weight would be to much if the full one dangled down, then on Her chest She wore the Gold Coin Broach a big looking thing, they say it was called a Five pound Gold Coin,  She wore a bonnet with a  small feather in, She was Regale and of the highest order, the Woman I was told would wear the Gold Coin rings, you would either in the past make them yourself or have a ring made from a gold smith, I was speaking to a man says his names Stanley from down the way, he said the old Stanley's called them the raparound, now my Mother told of long years when She was small, old relatives told Her of long ago talk, its at least the middle times of the 1800s, but they themselves could of been telling what there Old People told them, but my Mother told of how the Woman would plait Coins into their hair, this was more or less a looking thing, but She also telled how She was telled that they would hide Golden Coins in their hair, so the Coins could be safe, She says they could be woven in, in such a way you could not see them or they could not fall out ,it was there answer to having a bank account, this is what as been passed down to me, oral history, the old photo of my GrandMother is the seeing record of such things of Gipsys now gone, I saw my own Mother with Golden Coins in Her ears and on Her fingers, plus Golden Coin Broachers  that where hand made and welded together, I have always worn the Gold Coins round my kneck, and hand made Golden Coin rings, this is the truth of today, also the Woman liked to wear beaver skin coats, for when it rained the water would not penetrate, they were far from the weak and downtrodden you may hear of, they were much more powerful than anyone now alive will ever know, they have been left out of history, these are the Gold Coin People 

Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #200 on: Saturday 05 March 16 18:16 GMT (UK) »
People have often wrote about Gipsys in a way that they create God in their own image, they express their visions of how they see life ,they have often said they seek, but it was themselves they were looking for,  it was themselves they were writing about, they felt the evolution of man from the plains of Africa when the monkeys first came down from the trees, they felt and saw these things in the life of the Gipsy, but they created a false God, in time much of their work will be shown for the truth it does not posses,

 Extract from
Hunter And Hunted
Eleanor Sarasohn   
August 28, 2015 

Big game hunting implies that a hunter is in pursuit of the most dangerous “big game” in the area. Africa’s “Big Five” are elephant, rhinoceros, Cape buffalo, lion, and leopard. American big game animals are bears, moose, and bison. Tigers and rhinos are the big game hunted on the Indian subcontinent.

Lost Civilizations and Great White Hunters - Imperialist Adventure Literature
 extract from an  article in Voyages Extraordinaires series by Cory Gross

As the British Empire grew to encompass a fourth of the whole world, becoming the great empire upon which the sun never set, the far flung lands under Queen Victoria's dominion inspired writers and poets alike to craft tales of daring adventure in the name of Crown and Country. These stories soon grew to form their own genre of Scientific Romance literature, the precursor to Science Fiction, with it's own archetypes and stereotypes: Imperialist Adventure.

The Great White Hunter stereotype comes from this genre, as almost invariably, the hero or one of the heroes of the story was just such a character... A white man who sought wealth and excitement in the darkest corners of the Empire. And indeed, this Great White Hunter was usually in search of something like a lost civilization, to serve as the particular catalyst for the novel or more frequently, penny dreadful.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle made a late entry into the genre with one of it's most classic tales: 1912's The Lost World. In this story of a lost plateau where dinosaurs still reign, Conan Doyle manages to bring together the trends of Scientific Romance and Imperialist Adventure through both its scientific and its imperialistic ambitions. On the former hand we have the robust scientist George Edward Challenger, who's interest in the Lost World is scientific discovery, not unlike the exploration tales of Jules Verne (eg: Journey to the Centre of the Earth). But on the former hand we have the Great White Hunter John Roxton and the attitudes which the entire Challenger party carry with them from England, including a disgust at humanity's family tree and a fairly typical western desire to "solve" the problems of the "savages" for them... An arguement for imperialism ever since Rome and still present today.

some People have been excluded from history, some writers have created a false account of the history of Gipsys, through d.n.a study's I have read Gipsys in these lands and Europe are of a mixed gene pool, a mixed language, these things reflect the very nature of these peoples,

Yorkshire 1850

Murderous Affray in Westgate. — Three gipsies, named Wm.Wilshaw, sen., Wm. Wilshaw, jun., and John Winter, were charged with an assault and riot, in Westgate, on Monday evening. It appeared from the evidence on Monday evening, they were at the  travellers  rest, in Westgate, when the prisoners and several other gipsies came into the room. They had been sat there a considerable time apart from the rest of the com- pany, when the elder Wilshaw jumped up and declared he had had his pocket picked by some of the complainants' party. This appeared to have been a preconcerted scheme, for im- mediately the charge was made, one of the gipsies ran and secured the house doors, and put the keys into his pocket, others armed themselves with pokers, tong's,   and declared they would have the money from some of those who had been sitting with them. Favell and the others protested that the old man could not have been robbed by them, if he had been robbed at all, as none of them had been near him. The gipsies commenced an attack with their formidable weapons, which some few of the others resisted. The greater part of them, however, endeavoured to escape from the house, and finding all egress from the doors impossible, ran upstairs, pur- sued by the gipsies, and escaped only by jumping from the windows into the street A most desperate fight ensued be- tween those who were left and the gipsies, but at length the former were glad to make their escape by the same means as their companions, several of them with their heads most  seriously cut and bleeding The gipsies were thus left in entire possession ot the  house. the hole neighbourhood was in a tumult, and several  of the local police arrived the gipsies refused to open the door, and they were compelled to effect an entrance by the window. They succeeded in appre- hending the three prisoners, but the remainder of the party effected their escape. The youngest of the prisoners was most severely wounded on the head, and his leg had been very much bitten by a dog. — The Magistrates convicted the two Wilshaws in the penalty of 40s. each, and costs, or two months' imprisonment. The fines were paid. The prisoner Winter, who is upwards of 70 years of age, was discharged on paying costs, it appearing that he had not taken any part in the affray.

Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #201 on: Sunday 13 March 16 17:46 GMT (UK) »
I will try to help Relations of the future or now who may look for the People I write of, oral history  as telled how the ones I talk of were entwined with the Smiths, the records I have put on through these posts supports this, another Family named Winter was through oral history known, but to be truthfull i don't know if there are any records to support the old oral tradition, i have just found these few records above and below showing they were going round together, they could or could not be related i don't know, its just a start for others who will seek their Relatives, good luck, i will put on a few more names later in other posts to help you in the small way i can, i want to show you your great Gipsy People of the past that no one was bothered to think that they even lived, i was told of them when i was young they have always been the greatest of legends 
                                                 
                                              Yorkshire July 1875   

Serious Assault by a Gang of Gipsies.— On Monday, Wm. Wilsher, sen., Wm. Wilsher, jun., Ed- ward Wilsher, and James Winter, four gipsies, were charged with a violent assault on James Pears, landlord of the White Swan Inn at Brayton. Mr. Bantoft appeared for the prosecution, and Mr. Wainwright for the defendants. The latter offered to compensate complainant for his injuries, and to pay the costs, but the Bench objected The complainant said on the 28th ult. the men with others   came into his house, and the eldest had a glass of ale. They commenced to quarrel, and he told them to go out. Wm. Wilsher, sen., struck him on the lip with the butt end of a whip, cutting it open and knocking his teeth out Wm. Wilsher, jun., and Edward Wilsher struck him on the head and face with the butt ends of their whips. They kicked him till he became insensible, and he had since been under medical treatment. The men were shod with wooden clogs, finished with iron.— George Collins, of Burn, said he was returning from the fair at Selby and went into the White Swan for a glass of beer, when he saw the landlord on the floor, and the prisoners kicking him. Witness went towards the group, whereupon they used the butt ends, of their whips about his head. He fought his way through them, and picked up the landlord. While he was doing this, the party struck and kicked him repeatedly as well as Pears, who was bleeding and insensible.— Johuso Simpson! said he was in the house, and said " What a shame !" Immediately one of the men (though not one of the accused) kicked him in the face, cut his lip open, and knocked a tooth out— Dr. Gray, of Selby, said he had attended the prosecutor and described the injuries he had received.— The Bench committed the men for trial at the sessions.

                                                 Yorkshire August 1875

SAVAGE ASSAULT BY GIPSIES. four men, named William Wilsher the Elder (60), William Wilsher the yornger (24), Edward Wilsher (21), and James Winter (19), all gipsies, rendered to their bail _ upon a charge of having unlawfully and maliciously inflicted grievous bodily harm upon Mr Michael Pearse, a publican, landlord of the White Swan, Brayton. Mr Vernon Blackbain prosecuted, Mr Wheelhouse and Mr Tindal appearing for the defence. In opening the case, Mr Blackburn stated that, though there were four separate indictments against the men, it was not an assault with _ intent to commit a felony and although they were gipsies they were not thieves, therefore It must be taken out of the ordinary category. It appeared there had been a dispute about a wager, in which they used their riding whips. They had paid £lOO into court, and now appeared to receive judgment. So far as the prosecution was concerned did not at the time know so much about the men as he did now, and he had no desire to prosecute, therefore he (Mr Blackburn) would be glad if the Chairman could see his way clear to bind them over their own recognisances come for judgment whenever they might be called upon.—The Chairman read the prosecutor’s depositions, from which it appeared that a most savage assault had been committed. The men were differing in the public-house, and upon the prosecutor remonstrating with them William Wilsher the elder twisted the lash of his whip round his hand and struck him on the lip with the butt end, knocking one of his teeth out. Both he and the elder son belaboured him with their whips, the latter knocking him down by giving him a blow on the cheek. The others then joined in kicking and striking him in a most brutal manner. The prosecutor had been under a doctor’s care ever since, and was still suffering great pain.—The Chairman, having read this, said it was not a case for treatment as a common assault. The men could have their £lOO back, but the sentence the Court would be that they should each be imprisoned for three months with hard labour.


                                              DERBYSHIRE 1892

BAKEWELL.  Petty sessions  —Gipsies, Frederick Wilshaw. another travelling hawker of the same class, was fined ss. and costs for allowing two horses to stray on the highroad near Hassop Station. Joseph Johnson, who did not appear, was also fined ss. and costs for precisely similar offence the same time and place. Jane Winter, another of the gipsy gang, was fined ss. and costs for allowing two of her horses stray the highway on the same occasion.


Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #202 on: Sunday 27 March 16 17:29 BST (UK) »
 
 Another Family that could or could not be Related is a Family named Hartley from Scotland       

Oral history as past down was Williams Wife came from Scotland, in records She is said to be registered in Yorkshire, my Mother when young would plait Her hair and She would tell of the old  history, my Mother telled me of these times, She said She was born round a place named Musselburgh  in the mid to late 1800s, on a record that was shown to me it says Her Fathers name was Hartley, who Her Mother was I don't know, also the first name She was known by was not the one used on any record I have seen of Her, i think the two Williams below are Her Husband and Son, who Walter is i don't know but Her Husband sure as lots of names so it could be Him, young William thoe is only about 14 not 20, and the name he gives as David could be a clue, my Mother  telled of a young boy who died, I always thought She meant Her Mothers Son, but now it could mean Young WIlliam had a Brother, or his Grandad was named David Hartley and a Child that died was named after Him , who knows it could or could not be a clue,  these are rip roaring Gipsy People of their own day, so the Hartleys of Scotland could be related to these great People, who the Hartleys are I do not know, I did ask Vince once, he asked His Wife who I think is a Boswell and knows things for Shes in with the Church, She said they were Gipsy People, who ever they are thoe it seems like they could be Related   

Nottinghamshire 1907 

                                  ALLEGED FALSE PRETENCES AT NEWARK.

 Hartley, alias Walter Wiltshire, no fixed abode, was charged Newark Police-court this morning, before the Mayor (Councillor H. E. Braneton),. with obtaining  a guinea with false pretences, from Edmund Crow, saddler, Mill-gate, Newark. Prosecutor said that on Thursday morning prisoner came into  his shop and said he was from Catesby and Co. with cork lino. They had been fitting up the Clinton Arms, he said, and had nine or ten yards left over from the job. and they were authorised to sell it regardless of cost in order to save carriage back to the factory. He showed one of Catesbys cards, which wes printed: “We authorise our workmen to sell all remnants re-  gardless of cost to save carriage back to our warehouse.” This Satisfied witness that it was Cateeby’s, and he gave prisoner one guinea for the stuff. Subsequently made inquiries at the Clinton Arms, and in consequence gave information to the police. On this evidence the Chief Constable asked for a remand until Monday. Bail was asked for and granted in two sureties of £25 each, and prisoner Himself in £5O.

Nottingham 1910

                NOTTINGHAM MAN CHARGED WITH AN OFFENCE COMMITTED IN 1903.

 A case illustrative the long arm of the law came before Messrs. T. Ships tone and J. E. Pendleton at the Nottingham Summons Court to-dav, when William Wiltshire, alias Hartley, of 1, Kelk's-yard, Count-street, Nottingham, was summoned for using obscene language September 7th, 1903, and for assaulting Police-Constable Manners May 26th. The  evidence showed that seven years ago the defendant did not appear answer (be summons, and warrant had been taken out against him. Last Thursday assaulted Police-Constable Manners/land this afforded opportunity of charge being preferred against- him. The Bench overlooked the first offence, and sentenced him 21 days' imprisonment for assaulting the constable.

Derbyshire 1914

                                               USELESS  VARNISH.

William Wilsher (20), hawker, giving his address as 26, Bridgehouses, Sheffield, was charged at Chesterfield, to-day, with committing what the -Mayor (Alderman E. Shentall) “a very mean trick.” Two charges of obtaining money by false pretences were preferred against the youth, who is the son of Sheffield hawkers. on Friday', the 13th inst., prisoner called at her house and asked if she wanted to buy some varnish, saying he was a varnisher, that he had been doing work at Mr. Logging house at Brampton, and that the varnish he had over his master was allowing him to sell. She told him she did not want any varnish, but he produced bottle and a piece of cloth and applied some “varnish” out of the bottle to an old chair. The stuff seemed all right and he offered to sell the bottleful for 2s. She ultimately bought it for 9d. Her son was about to “try” the varnish, but none would come out of the bottle, and examination showed a second cork lower down the neck of the bottle. This cork was pushed in and the liquid that came out was nothing but coloured water. Witness afterwards identified the prisoner at the police station. Mr. Frank Stokes, paint and varnish manufacturer. said the mixture in the two bottles produced was 25 per cent, water, with a small quantity of linseed oil and Bismarck brown. As a varnish the stuff was absolutely useless and was not worth a penny.

Prisoner pleaded guilty on both charges, The Bench decided to convict, and the Chiefconstable announced a conviction at Sheffield against the prisoner, who gave the name of" David Hartley" Mrs. Wilsher hereupon burst into tears and she besought the Bench “not to let her darling go down.” The uproar she created led to her being ejected from the Court. "We consider it a very mean trick to defraud a blind woman,” observed the Mayor to young Wilsher, “and you will be fined £2. including costs, on each charge, or one month’s imprisonment for each offence.”

Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #203 on: Wednesday 30 March 16 11:48 BST (UK) »
 just a few story's of the WoodWards and Wiltshires, the places they stopped at, the adventures they got up to, some of the People they lived amongst, People they met along the way, I will just put a few articles on that I find, there's so many names I keep coming across, I don't evan know who they are, I hope by sharing the story's I know and the story's I find, I hope it will be of help to others, there's so many names, so many life's, I,ll keep trying for a while longer to show People the great unwritten, I will do my best to help all of them, the great Gypsy People, there's so much strength, its hard to understand why People do not see what I see, why they do not feel what I feel, I will try and do the right thing                                                 
                                                   
                                                      Derbyshire 1881
                                             
                                                  Bakewell Petty Sessions

                                             A Gipsy Encampment At Stoke 

Joseph Wiltshire, Attercliffe Common, summoned for making a bonfire on the side of the highway on the 26th of May in the parish of Stoke, to the danger of the public— Defendant did not appear. sergeant Fern stated that he found the defendant camping at the side of the highway, there was within three feet from the side the road and 50 feet from the centre of the road  a large fire, He told him he had been repeatedly warned and being of no use, he would summon him. defendant was very abusive when spoken to about the illegality of this " ho" he replied "I know nineteen points of the law, and I,ll  teach you the twentieth." He was a low pot hawker and gipsy horse dealer. cloths were hanging out to dry by the side of the road, and there appeared to be quite a small colony of the tribe camping on the side of the road with a roaring fire. Fined 2s. 6d 10s. 6d. costs.

                                          Keeping a Dog Without a Licence

The same defendant was also summoned for keeping a dog without a license at the same time and place as the above. Sergeant Fern proved the case and the Bench imposed penalty of 5s. 10d with 10s. 6d. costs

                                                Allowing A Horse To Stray.

A third summons was also issued against the same defendant for allowing a horse to stray on the highway, the parish of Sheldon on the 27th of May. Alcock proving the case said i was on the road leading from Ashford to Taddington, about 10.30 p.m.  when I came upon some horses straying in the road, and further on a large fire by the side of the road and two wagons. it appears that Wiltshire having removed from Stoke made his way to the picturesque valley of Taddington Dale where he pitched up his tent but he found no peace evan there.  fined 1s. and 10s. 6d. costs.
                                               
                                           Another Gipsy's Horse at Large.
 
Emmanuel Woodward, a gipsy hawker, traveling in the company of Wiltshire was summoned by P.c Alcock, of Taddington, for permitting  a horse to stray on the highway between Ashford and Taddington, on the 27th of May. .fined ls. and 10s. 6d. costs 
                                       
                                                         Derbyshire 1884

                                                  Derbyshire Quarter Sessions
                                                   
                                                     Alleged False Pretences.

Thomas Willshaw, 17, hawker, and David Woodward. 17, hawker, were indicted for obtaining. by means of false pretences, two coats, value £1 Is., the property of  Ann Chatterton. at Glossop, on the 2nd of September, 1884. —No doubt the men had obtained the goods and disposed of them. The question was whether there was any agreement to purchase them. If they thought the prisoners agreed to purchase the goods even if they did not pay for them, they could find no bill,   then there would be question of debt. If they thought there was no contract to purchase the goods, then unquestionably the prisoners did obtain them by means of false pretence. He thought they would  be able to find a bill, if the too witnesses adhered to what they said before the magistrates. After hearing several witnesses the Chairman said he did not think the case was one for a jury,The case broke down, and the prisoners were discharged.           

Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #204 on: Thursday 31 March 16 09:20 BST (UK) »
                                           "BOLD RODNEY" INN, BRAMPTON.   


  The WoodWards and Wiltshires I have found were stopping for a while in a place called Bold Rodney Yard, in 1913 i don't know how long for or evan if they new each other, there are lots of names round that yard in Chesterfield over the years, I will put a few storys up of the WoodWards Smiths and Wiltshires plus other names that come into the storys of the times and place of this land where Gipsys stayed, on the next page I will write about what I find about the place called the Bold Rodney yard
below it says how Thomas Wiltshire was there, and how hes with someone called Thomas Higginbotham, I,ll have to look for him another time 
                                                         
                                                            Derbyshire 1913
                                                         The Linoleum Layers                                                         

                                               Charges Of False Pretences Dismissed

How goods were sold as result of "puffing", at. Whittington Moor, led to the appearance of two van-dwellers at the chesterfield County Police Court two charges of having obtained money by false pretence on November 27th  last year with intent The names were Thomas Wiltshire and Thomas Higginbotham They pleaded not guilty to having obtained under such pretences 16s. 6d. from Herbart Collie, Whittington Moor labourer, and 12s. from Annie Shaw, wife of a shopkeeper, Whittington Moor. Both defendants were defended Mr A. F- Neal. From the evidence it appeared  that the men called on the people from whom they obtained the money and told them that they were engaged with a number of men in laying linoleum at a large house in the district, and as there had been some left over they would sell the surplus for beer money divided among the workmen. The defendants said to be wearing white aprons, and they gave the impression that they were workmen. The linoleum was not-thoroughly  examined by the  purchasers before the defendants were paid the money for it. Mr collis, in his evidence, said Wiltshire told him that there were eight men and one boy working at the big house, and the linoleum he bought he stated it was worth £2. he asked 16s. 6d. for it 2s. for each of the men and 6d. for the boy. Mr Neal: Did you think these workmen were robbing their master' Witness Yes sir. Did you think they had got the right to sell their master's property for 16s. when it was worth £2 for beer? No answer. Did you believe the tale of the big house and they were working there, did you think you had the right to buy? did you think that it was cheap?—No sir. What then Did you think it was dear?—No sir, I never touched it.  i thought it was all right. Now, what as made you regret it? do you think you paid too much for it?  is that what the trouble is about? —Yes- Now tell me straight is that why you are here because you bought it a bit too dear?—Yes.  Yes Well what possible case could you call after that? Ald. Markham: did you part with the money wisely. I don’t know, sir. I thought it would be all right. Ald. Markham; Did you feel the linoleum? Witness: I never touched it. I never put my finger on it. Mrs Shaw deposed to paying 12s. for some of the linoleum.  i was told that she was getting a bargain, but when she went to roll out the linoleum with a knife it did not need cutting. You could break it right across she said
Mr Neal: Did jou examine the oilcloth before you paid for it? Witness: No.I didn’t till they had gone. In fact, you thought you had come across some respectable British working men who could sell their masters' property to get beer for themselfs. They looked like respectable working men. You don’t tell the magistrates that tale do you?—Yes I do. ... P.c. selvey  spoke to Wiltshire at Brampton. with Higginbotham, some days after the sale of the linoleum. On being identified as one of the men who sold the linoleum, Wiltshire ran in one direction, and went into the Rodney yard The constable followed him. but was unable to catch him or Higginbotham, who ran in the  opposite direction Mr Neal contended that there was no evidence that any statement made by the men was not true. probably it was not. but had not been made out there. "Men like these"  he said."like many others they live by there wits,  but if people are foolish enough buy things, because they think they are cheap,  I ask you to say that there is no case made out. It is no offence in England to sell things too dear, or a good many shopkeepers. I think, would be here.” (Laughter.) he admitted that the men had done some ‘‘puffing,” but that  was no offence. If people, he said liked to buy pigs in a poke  they must buy them. he pressed it as a question of law that there was not a statement made that amounted to false pretences. " Supposing,” he added, "that these goods were worth twice as much?” Mr Smith (the assistant magistrates’ clerk); They should not have been here then. (Laughter.) The Chairman (Aid. Markham) said the men had been very ably defended by Mr Neal. There was no doubt about it that they did obtain the mony by false pretences and by means of a trick, but the evidence was not sufficiently strong to convict. He had no doubt that the people had been defrauded by them. They would have to pay the costs                                                     

Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #205 on: Thursday 31 March 16 19:09 BST (UK) »
  https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwisnKCEwuvLAhVCfRoKHaFQBkgQFggjMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.picturethepast.org.uk%2Ffrontend.php%3Fkeywords%3DRef_No_increment%3BEQUALS%3BDCCC001305%26pos%3D2%26action%3Dzoom&usg=AFQjCNEZCC6LSpc_KlHw8I6Tk2osDYAazA

                                                    The Bold Rodney Yard

The link above is from a web site called Picture My Past, click on to see the old yard at Brampton Chesterfield Derbyshire

Chesterfield, the Bold Rodney Wheatbridge Road, Brampton closed about 1983 it was transformed into Ziggis fun pub and then ended up as Dynasty Chinese restaurant  Apparently named after Admiral Rodney   

                                                        Derbyshire 1845
   
                                                27 September 1845 Deaths

Aged 83. at Manchester, John Bracewell. he was supposed the last man living who was in the action with Rodney, in the destruction of the French fleet under Count Grasse, in the West Indies, April 12. 1782. The above death we copy into our obituary from the Globe to rectify the error into which the Globe as fallen one of the survivors of Lord Rodney’s action now residing in Chesterfield, of the name of Richard Turner, and "was board Lord Rodney’s ship", the gallant veteran enjoys most excellent health, and takes great delight recounting his  perilous adventures, and "fighting his battles o’er again". —E.d. D.C 

                                                        Derbyshire 1911

                                                        Identifying A Foul

Brampton Men Accused of Theft at Ridgeway. A mystery surrounding the disappearance of a Ridgeway farmer’s fowl resulted in two Chesterfield men, named Thomas and John Woodward, van dwellers of Rodney Yard, Brampton, being arrested. It was, stated, however, at the  Eckington Police Court, on Monday, when the two men were brought up. that a fowl, which was found in their possession had been given to them. The fowl which was said have been stolen belonged to Lewis Taylor, of Stuben Hill Farm. Ridgeway. On March 27 he said, he missed a fowl, similar to the one produced in Court. Florence Edith Poile. married woman, of Ridgeway, said that she saw the two with a trap, and she noticed one of them pick something up off the road. When the man got up again, she added, she noticed that had got a fowl. He wrung its neck and put the bird in a cart. P.c. Hudson stated that he went Brampton and saw' the men Woodward, and found that the men were the men. w’ho had been to Ridgeway buying old iron. When interrogated, John admitted they had stolen a fowl from Ridgeway, and eaten it. Later, however, he said," it was in the house, and produced it. on the way to the police station John declared that a woman named Mrs. Fidler gave them the fowl. Mr. A. J. Hopkins, of Chesterfield, who defended, pointed out that the only evidence the prosecution had brought was that of the prosecutor, who'could only identify the fowl produced in Court by the head and legs. a lad named William Mitchell, employed by Mrs. Fidler. declared that he caught a fowl on the instructions of Mrs. Fidler, and gave it to John Woodward. The bird was "sick” and they did not expect it would live. Mrs. Fidler corroborated this story and evidence having been given by the men Woodward, who denied the charges, Bench gave them the benefit of the doubt and dismissed the case.

                                                      Derbyshire 1848

CHESTERFIELD BOROUGH COURT. (Before E. G. Maynard, Mrs. Elizabeth Race, of Manchester, the owner of some property situated in the Rodney yard, Brampton, was summoned, under the act for the removal nuisances, for permitting a nuisance, arising from cesspool, ashes pit, &c., to exist in the said yard. Mr. Cox, of the Rodney public house, appeared for Mrs. Race. Dr. Walker was examined as to the state of the property in question. He said that on the 3rd of November he inspected certain premises the back the Rodney, and found a cesspool completely filled with noxious matter, which was in fluid state, and was running over into drain, and from thence into an adjoining field. The noxious miasma arising from this cesspool he (Dr. Walker) considered to be injurious in the health of persons residing in the locality alluded to. The Bench made an order for the removal of the nuisance complained of on Monday. It was mentioned that several nuisances had been immediately removed complaint being made by the inspector appointed under the Board of Guardians.

                                                          Derbyshire 1853

                                      BRAMPTON. TO BE SOLD BY PRIVATE CONTRACT 
                                                         A CLOSE of LAND

In the parish of Brampton, and near to the Town of Chesterfield, lying between the Turnpike Road there and the river Hipper, with the small building to the north east extremity therof, adjoining to the Bold Rodney Public House, and occupied therewith, the whole  containing by estimation 3a. 2b. I6p. The Land presents considerable frontage to the Road, rendering a large portion of it suitable for Building purposes. Immediate possession may be given. For further particulars, to treat for the purchase, apply to Messrs. SHIPTON and HALLEWELL, Solicitors, Chesterfield.  17th June, 1853.

Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #206 on: Sunday 03 April 16 23:15 BST (UK) »
 I have been researching for records around The lands known as the Bold Rodney Yard Brampton, I,v got lots to say about the Family's that I have been talking about, I have found  lots of information, everyone will judge with there own eyes thoe, you see it was only the other day I came across Brampton, but since then I,v realised how that unknown small place was quite the hub, any one who as ever been to Leeds train station will know what I mean, when you come from a city like Nottingham or Sheffield with their smart but localised lines only to wonder at the mad Hustle and bustle of Leeds, well believe it or not I believe Brampton to have been one such a place for Gipsys and also to full English hawkers, I will try and explain what I mean, it will take a few pages but it is  very relevant to all people seeking their Relatives, there is much to be learned, I have been surprised at how many hawker types of people there was, I hope it will be of help for all people researching, I think Brampton will not be an isolated case, I have heard of down the Kent way, how not only the Gipsys but say London folk would go fruit and veg picking In the summer, even after a time some would mix as in marriage, I have heard of the London Costermongers I think you call them and Hawker type people mixing with Gipsys, I think I have found the Hub that I think Brampton was, if you just listen to what I have to say you may agree,     
So the story starts here, now I haven't forgot the Woodwards or Smiths, and I would never leave the Wiltshire's and all the other Familys behind, but we must retrace our steps, if only to understand ourselves and the ones we meat and mix with on a day to day basis                                         

                                          A record Of An Advertisement in 1779

This Day is  published, price only One Shilling,  illustrated with a neat and correct Map of Great-Britain, describing the principal Roads and chief Towns, on a large Scale. OWEN's New BOOK of ROADS: OR, A DESCRIPTION of the ROADS of Great-Britain  Being a COMPANION to OWEN's Compleat BOOK of FAIRS. CONTAINING. An Alphabetical Lift of all the Cities, Towns, and remarkable Villages, in England and Wales the Counties in which they are situated, and the Market-Days. Crofts Roads in Scotland. The General Roads of the Judges Circuits. A concise Accout of the Noblemens and Gentlemens Seats upon each Road. An authentic Account of the Second Edition, corrected and greatly improved. Printed for W. Owen, in Fleet-Street, London and sold by J. Due wry, Bookseller, in Derby and all other Booklellers in Town and Country Of whom may be had, A new Edition of OWEN's Compleat BOOK of all the FAIRS in England and Wales, in three distinct Lifts, with an Abstract of all the Acts of Parliament relating to Fairs.This is the only authentic Account of the Fairs extant. These two Books, in one Volume, will be a most useful Companion to Gentlemen and Dealers, in their Journey to any Part of England or Wales and may be had, bound together, in a neat Pocket Volume, price 2s.

you may just google Owens complete Book of Fairs and or Roads to find the books on the internet,  its there for any to read, I was amazed at the amount of Fairs, Market days, all sorts of days that were there for people of some hawking profession, these things were on the go for hundreds of years, I think the original Gipsys just joined in and along with the British hawkers, the Local people were all selling horses and doing all the jobs that people say the Gipsys did, I would say there was far much more mixing than others have made out, between the Gipsys, Hawkers, Farmers, Landlords of property and land, everyone  really, i wonder have people played up to much on the notion of the isolated stick to your own real Gipsy, the real Gipsy down in the woods, we can only make our own judgements as things come along, so the story as started, this is not Gospel, its just my words


 I'll just put one later record on I found, don't you just love that name Emmanuel, now that's two Emmanuel's, one Woodward, one Smith, and I never even heard of one until the other day                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                     Derbyshire 1913
                                                   
                                                 Before the Magistrates

  At the Chesterfield Borough Police Court Thursday, Emmanuel Smith. Rodney Yard. Brampton, was fined Is. and costs for being the owner of a horse found straying in Ashgate Road on Saturday, Constable Kee stating the facts.